aweebluesoandso 290 Posted March 23, 2018 Share Posted March 23, 2018 2 minutes ago, ranger_syntax said: Board representation is not too much to ask if Club1872 has a sufficient shareholding and can persuade the board and other shareholders. Did you know that share dilution could happen when you put money in? We are currently the second largest shareholder after Dave King i believe, also we spent £1mil buying half Ashley's shares and removing him from the club. In my opinion getting rid of Ashley should have resulted in the support getting board representation. I know what share dilution is, but didn't know when i joined C1872m it was forthcoming. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ranger_syntax 3,769 Posted March 23, 2018 Share Posted March 23, 2018 Just now, aweebluesoandso said: We are currently the second largest shareholder after Dave King i believe, also we spent £1mil buying half Ashley's shares and removing him from the club. In my opinion getting rid of Ashley should have resulted in the support getting board representation. I know what share dilution is, but didn't know when i joined C1872m it was forthcoming. I think that if you knew what share dilution is then you can't reasonably complain about this. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaffer 1,665 Posted March 23, 2018 Share Posted March 23, 2018 I've read the thread with interest so far. The way I see it is that Club 1872 has two options here. It can ask for a seat on the board because of its shareholding, or due to its importance as represtative of the club's supporters. If it's based on the value of the shareholding, King is quite right to ask it (us all) to invest in line with the others shareholders. That makes sense. If however Club 1872's claim for a seat is based on representing supporters, I see a problem. Does Club 1872 actually represent many of us? I pay my monthly dues, but that's to buy shares, not for them to represent me in any other capacity. I didn't sign up to that. I don't know what Club 1872 stands for, or what it would push for if given a seat on the board. Could we even agree on any major points to then allow someone to represent that opinion? We spend much of our time on here disagreeing about all of the important decisions regarding the manager, player priorities, stadium improvement priorities, other members on the board, managing the media, etc. Who can truly represent the fans? I have no idea how you even begin to do that. The problem I have is that a single person then has the power to advance their own opinions, based on their claim to represent the thousands. Also, the difficulty with a position on the board here is that the representative does not have a shared objective that would help in the boardroom. We all want to be successful again, but how do we achieve that? In normal situations in the business world, the rep is there to ensure that shareholder value is managed in line with the expectations. It's therefore clear how that rep can contribute to the debate, and actions. However, Club 1872 is not interested in 'shareholder value' as such, but more about the success of the club. So what would this rep actually be doing? What is their role in the boardroom? What skills and expertise do they offer the board? Equally, how could they possibly maintain the level of confidentiality required by a board? If they represent us, how do they provide assurances that they're doing this effectively if they can't tell us what's going on? If this person can't tell us, why even have one on the board? Why not just challenge the board via the AGM, or similar shareholder meeting? I know the business world, but fully accept I know little about representing fans in these organisations, so I don't understand the benefit to us in having a board position. It's maybe interesting for our representative to be on the board, but beyond that where's the value for anyone? I'm not saying it's a bad idea, necessarily. I'm just saying I really don't understand it. I contribute to Club 1872 but wouldn't attend a meeting unless critical. Do any others on here engage more with Club 1872 than I do, and if so, what has been discussed about the value of this seat on the board? I don't understand and would welcome the insight or opinions. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
aweebluesoandso 290 Posted March 23, 2018 Share Posted March 23, 2018 Just now, ranger_syntax said: I think that if you knew what share dilution is then you can't reasonably complain about this. I'm not complaining about the dilution of shares per say, i'm complaining at the fact the more the support put in the less recognition we get ie no representation on the board. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ranger_syntax 3,769 Posted March 23, 2018 Share Posted March 23, 2018 4 minutes ago, Gaffer said: I've read the thread with interest so far. The way I see it is that Club 1872 has two options here. It can ask for a seat on the board because of its shareholding, or due to its importance as represtative of the club's supporters. If it's based on the value of the shareholding, King is quite right to ask it (us all) to invest in line with the others shareholders. That makes sense. If however Club 1872's claim for a seat is based on representing supporters, I see a problem. Does Club 1872 actually represent many of us? I pay my monthly dues, but that's to buy shares, not for them to represent me in any other capacity. I didn't sign up to that. I don't know what Club 1872 stands for, or what it would push for if given a seat on the board. Could we even agree on any major points to then allow someone to represent that opinion? We spend much of our time on here disagreeing about all of the important decisions regarding the manager, player priorities, stadium improvement priorities, other members on the board, managing the media, etc. Who can truly represent the fans? I have no idea how you even begin to do that. The problem I have is that a single person then has the power to advance their own opinions, based on their claim to represent the thousands. I think Club1872 justifiably claims to represent thousands of donors. Almost all Club1872 donors will be supporters. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
aweebluesoandso 290 Posted March 23, 2018 Share Posted March 23, 2018 2 minutes ago, Gaffer said: I've read the thread with interest so far. The way I see it is that Club 1872 has two options here. It can ask for a seat on the board because of its shareholding, or due to its importance as represtative of the club's supporters. If it's based on the value of the shareholding, King is quite right to ask it (us all) to invest in line with the others shareholders. That makes sense. If however Club 1872's claim for a seat is based on representing supporters, I see a problem. Does Club 1872 actually represent many of us? I pay my monthly dues, but that's to buy shares, not for them to represent me in any other capacity. I didn't sign up to that. I don't know what Club 1872 stands for, or what it would push for if given a seat on the board. Could we even agree on any major points to then allow someone to represent that opinion? We spend much of our time on here disagreeing about all of the important decisions regarding the manager, player priorities, stadium improvement priorities, other members on the board, managing the media, etc. Who can truly represent the fans? I have no idea how you even begin to do that. The problem I have is that a single person then has the power to advance their own opinions, based on their claim to represent the thousands. Also, the difficulty with a position on the board here is that the representative does not have a shared objective that would help in the boardroom. We all want to be successful again, but how do we achieve that? In normal situations in the business world, the rep is there to ensure that shareholder value is managed in line with the expectations. It's therefore clear how that rep can contribute to the debate, and actions. However, Club 1872 is not interested in 'shareholder value' as such, but more about the success of the club. So what would this rep actually be doing? What is their role in the boardroom? What skills and expertise do they offer the board? Equally, how could they possibly maintain the level of confidentiality required by a board? If they represent us, how do they provide assurances that they're doing this effectively if they can't tell us what's going on? If this person can't tell us, why even have one on the board? Why not just challenge the board via the AGM, or similar shareholder meeting? I know the business world, but fully accept I know little about representing fans in these organisations, so I don't understand the benefit to us in having a board position. It's maybe interesting for our representative to be on the board, but beyond that where's the value for anyone? I'm not saying it's a bad idea, necessarily. I'm just saying I really don't understand it. I contribute to Club 1872 but wouldn't attend a meeting unless critical. Do any others on here engage more with Club 1872 than I do, and if so, what has been discussed about the value of this seat on the board? I don't understand and would welcome the insight or opinions. That's fair commnet, i won't answer every point or questions you pose Gaffer only just to say. I want a supporters representative on the board to represent our views, one case in point after the Scottish cup semi final invasion, the club were less than fully supportive of the fans being lied about in the Record. The Jane Hamilton pack of lies about the support holding up the Police from getting to Hampden and helping with the Hibernian fans invasion. I f we had a rep on the board maybe he could have done more to tackle those lies? 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
D'Artagnan 173 Posted March 23, 2018 Share Posted March 23, 2018 (edited) 18 minutes ago, Gaffer said: I've read the thread with interest so far. The way I see it is that Club 1872 has two options here. It can ask for a seat on the board because of its shareholding, or due to its importance as represtative of the club's supporters. If it's based on the value of the shareholding, King is quite right to ask it (us all) to invest in line with the others shareholders. That makes sense. If however Club 1872's claim for a seat is based on representing supporters, I see a problem. Does Club 1872 actually represent many of us? I pay my monthly dues, but that's to buy shares, not for them to represent me in any other capacity. I didn't sign up to that. I don't know what Club 1872 stands for, or what it would push for if given a seat on the board. Could we even agree on any major points to then allow someone to represent that opinion? We spend much of our time on here disagreeing about all of the important decisions regarding the manager, player priorities, stadium improvement priorities, other members on the board, managing the media, etc. Who can truly represent the fans? I have no idea how you even begin to do that. The problem I have is that a single person then has the power to advance their own opinions, based on their claim to represent the thousands. Also, the difficulty with a position on the board here is that the representative does not have a shared objective that would help in the boardroom. We all want to be successful again, but how do we achieve that? In normal situations in the business world, the rep is there to ensure that shareholder value is managed in line with the expectations. It's therefore clear how that rep can contribute to the debate, and actions. However, Club 1872 is not interested in 'shareholder value' as such, but more about the success of the club. So what would this rep actually be doing? What is their role in the boardroom? What skills and expertise do they offer the board? Equally, how could they possibly maintain the level of confidentiality required by a board? If they represent us, how do they provide assurances that they're doing this effectively if they can't tell us what's going on? If this person can't tell us, why even have one on the board? Why not just challenge the board via the AGM, or similar shareholder meeting? I know the business world, but fully accept I know little about representing fans in these organisations, so I don't understand the benefit to us in having a board position. It's maybe interesting for our representative to be on the board, but beyond that where's the value for anyone? I'm not saying it's a bad idea, necessarily. I'm just saying I really don't understand it. I contribute to Club 1872 but wouldn't attend a meeting unless critical. Do any others on here engage more with Club 1872 than I do, and if so, what has been discussed about the value of this seat on the board? I don't understand and would welcome the insight or opinions. Im guessing, as it was after my time on the board, but I suspect Club 1872's move for a place on the board synergises with their previous statements about Q & A sessions being an ineffective tool as a means of communication and vigilance. There being no other mechanisms available I suspect a board place was the only viable option. The original vision of the organisation was the safeguarding of the club - you cant do that if you are disenfranchised or cut off from the processes and decision making which affects that. I think there is a considerable element of risk in all of this if things dont work out to plan. Edited March 23, 2018 by D'Artagnan typo 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
compo 6,137 Posted March 23, 2018 Share Posted March 23, 2018 Just a thought how many seats on the board would 1872 expect/ want on the board and I think that sometimes boards can be to big and when will the club issue a share issue to the little investor so I and many others can put something into the club . 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluedell 5,329 Posted March 23, 2018 Author Share Posted March 23, 2018 12 minutes ago, D'Artagnan said: Im guessing, as it was after my time on the board, but I suspect Club 1872's move for a place on the board synergises with their previous statements about Q & A sessions being an ineffective tool as a means of communication and vigilance. There being no other mechanisms available I suspect a board place was the only viable option. The original vision of the organisation was the safeguarding of the club - you cant do that if you are disenfranchised or cut off from the processes and decision making which affects that. I think there is a considerable element of risk in all of this if things dont work out to plan. Supporter representation was always an sum of the Trust so surely it should have been an aim of C1872 too? 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
D'Artagnan 173 Posted March 23, 2018 Share Posted March 23, 2018 5 minutes ago, Bluedell said: Supporter representation was always an sum of the Trust so surely it should have been an aim of C1872 too? "Our Vision Club 1872 seeks to give our members a meaningful say in Rangers Football Club by increasing their collective shareholding. The organisation is a responsible, independent and democratic representation of our members and will defend and protect the reputation, history, assets and existence of Rangers Football Club. In the spirit of the Founding Fathers, Club 1872 will pursue this undertaking above all else." 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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