ââ?¬Å?Rangers Deducted 3 Points and Fined Ã?£250,000ââ?¬Â� ââ?¬â?? Itââ?¬â?¢s Getting Closer...

[buba3d 0]

come on people its pretty obvious what we can and cannot sing/chant

any songs that has any add ons with the words ***, feinan and bobby sans

thats deemed as sectarian chanting,

 

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fans can chant/sing sheep shagger, tims, huns, sing songs about the queen, cooper, simmy song so on so fourth, they ain't going to be fined as thats nothing to do with sectarianism, attacking one others religion is.

[BC2 0]

But the SFA, in their wisdom, have said they will take action on anything deemed to be offensive, sectarian or otherwise.

[buba3d 0]

But the SFA, in their wisdom, have said they will take action on anything deemed to be offensive, sectarian or otherwise.

i'll believe that when i see that, they should start with the hibs chants for starters.

[craig 5,199]

BC2 is right Buba - the SFA have created a can of worms that they will ultimately have little to no chance of policing.

 

Had they restricted it to sectarian songs then it might have been policed - but as soon as you include "offensive" songs then it is, IMO, impossible to police - because what is offensive to one person is not offensive to another.

 

At an extreme you will have Rangers fans who find EVERY Celtic song offensive (and vice versa) so does that mean the song actually IS offensive ? Of course not, but all it does is make the SFA's job even harder than it already is.

 

I said at the time and I say it again, this piece of legislation is nigh on impossible to police consistently and fairly.

 

Also, the SFA are trying to tackle a problem the Scottish Executive have not even tried to handle - if the Executive truly wanted an end to sectarian issues then they would completely revamp the schooling system and abolish segregated schooling - but do they ? will they ? I doubt it.

[Super_Ally 0]

Also, the SFA are trying to tackle a problem the Scottish Executive have not even tried to handle - if the Executive truly wanted an end to sectarian issues then they would completely revamp the schooling system and abolish segregated schooling - but do they ? will they ? I doubt it.

 

That's what gets me. Trying to tackle a society wide problem by only dealing with what is, imo, the minor aspect of football and "90 minute bigotry". If this country was serious about it they'd look at some of the bigger issues such as state funded sectarian schooling. Just goes to show they aren't serious about tackling bigotry.

[bmck 117]

i heard that in glasgow more young people die of suicide than anywhere else in the uk, and ahead of most other causes.

 

about two people in the last ten years have died of 'sectarian' (or as level headed people call it - thuggish) violence.

 

why is it all i hear is about the latter?

[Super_Ally 0]

i heard that in glasgow more young people die of suicide than anywhere else in the uk, and ahead of most other causes.

 

about two people in the last ten years have died of 'sectarian' (or as level headed people call it - thuggish) violence.

 

why is it all i hear is about the latter?

 

The jhoke McConnel school of politics?

 

Make a mountain out of a molehill to try and deflect from your ineptitude in every other aspect of your job.

[CammyF 6,807]

I'll come clean immediately and state that I am a Celtic fan.

 

A good article and there's little I disagree with. This whole 'offensive' issue is an utter nonsense and will prove impossibe to police. When does banter end and offence start? Are Aberdeen fans, for example, seriously traumatised by bestiality taunts?

 

I would like to make one point. I accept there is nothing inherently wrong with singing The Sash and Derry's Walls (without add-ons), but are rebel songs then also acceptable by the same arguement? Let me state categorically that I personally find them offensive (and utterly irrelevant to football) but it is inevitable they will be heard on Saturday at Falkirk and equally inevitable that people connected with your club will pounce on this.

 

We need far greater clarity around all of this but I doubt we'll get it.

 

BC2 (is it Bryce Cundy per chance, thats for another thread!!), you are correct in what you say. For instance, I do not find 'rebel songs' offensive but as soon as the IRA are mentioned, then yes, I do find them offensive. I also find any reference to 'hun', 'animals' and DOB's offensive as well.

 

Craptic have many 'rebel songs' that they have bastardised like 'We Are All Of To Dublin In The Green - FCUK the Queen', 'North Men South Men one and all, Soon there will be no Protestants at all' etc and yes I find these offensive.

 

However, where the SFA have fooked up is by saying that any offensive song is to be 'investigated'. As Gordon Smith says, will the SFA close down stands at Hampdump as soon as the TA sing (the homophobic) Jimmy Hill song and their usual anti-English bile?

 

This is going to be a long hard season off the pitch for most clubs.

 

Cammy F

[PrideAndPassion 0]

You only have to listen to some clown called Billy on the Real Radio phone in tonight to realise how hard a job we have in ridding our club of this problem

 

At one point he said he had an issue with people crossing themselves, saying religion should be kept out of football, but then said he would stand by his right to shout about the Pope

 

We really need to start banning some people FOR LIFE and start NOW!

[BC2 0]

Cammy - who is Bryce Cundy?

 

Like you, I have always taken offence when the IRA are mentioned. I have had these discussions on Celtic forums. I am of an age (39) when I associate the IRA with turning on my TV to watch the news and another IRA atrocity has been committed resulting in the death of numerous innocent civilians. To play devil's advocate for a moment however, the IRA have not always been a terrorist organisation and many of the songs originated from a time when seeing the IRA as romantic freedom fighters seems less abhorent. Also in the last couple of years they have lain down their arms (at least officially). Coming from somebody with no strong views on Irish politics, it also has to be said that the British Army (for whom I have enormous respect) have not always been beyond criticism with Bloody Sunday as the worst example.

 

'Hun' is interesting in this debate. It's a good example of language evolving. I no longer us the word as it is now arguably sectarian and more definitely offensive but I believe it started out life as fairly lighthearted, similar to you referring to Celtic fans as 'the unwashed' for example. I agree 'animals' is offensive although absolutely not sectarian. There is also a debate, however, to be had around 'orange'. 'Sad orange bastards', sang twice a year (if we're winning) is undeniably sectarian and inexcusable, but the word does depend on context and is not the equivalent of '******' which is simply a derogatory word for a catholic. To illustrate my point, we do not, to the best of my knowledge, have a Fenain Order or ****** walks. To me 'orange' has associations with extreme potestantism and intolerance. In my opinion, and I am sure you will disagree, DOBs often, but not always, was making reference to this rather than a general anti-protestant connotation. I have a protestant friend who supports Morton, and he refers to Rangers as the DOBs!

 

I am in total agreement regarding the bastardised songs you give as examples. They are unequivocally sectarian. I can honestly say, however, that I cannot recall the last time I heard either of your examples.

 

Finally I agree it will be a long hard season regarding this. One consolation for Rangers is that I think the SFA's decision to broaden their investigations to anything offensive is to Rangers' advantage. Had this been limited to strictly defined sectarianis I honestly believe Rangers would find themselves more isolated. I am not pretending it does not exist at Celtic, but I believe it is the exception (as I've tried to illustrate above) rather than the rule which at least until recently was the case at Ibrox. It is also not a problem isolated to the old firm as proven by the Hearts reaction to the minute's silence following the death of the pope. Rangers, as a club, have taken action and deserve credit although more is needed.

 

Finally all is not well on the playing front at Parkhead. I predict you will be smiling come May, if not before, although I obviously hope I'm wrong.