Tavernier

[Bill 13,717]

1 hour ago, CammyF said:

I'm assuming we aren't blaming Tav for all those 214 goals? 

Certainly not all ... but ... certainly not none. So how many?

[CammyF 6,898]

46 minutes ago, Bill said:

Certainly not all ... but ... certainly not none. So how many?

As a percentage or an actual number? I would assume around the same percentage as other defenders and / keeper.

[Bill 13,717]

3 hours ago, CammyF said:

As a percentage or an actual number? I would assume around the same percentage as other defenders and / keeper.

I wasn’t looking for an actual number 😂

It was just tongue in cheek. He’s a great goal scorer but a bit of an imposter as a defender. Much like our other fullback really and we seriously need to fix our defence.

[Rousseau 9,508]

10 hours ago, CammyF said:

As a percentage or an actual number? I would assume around the same percentage as other defenders and / keeper.

 

6 hours ago, Bill said:

I wasn’t looking for an actual number 😂

It was just tongue in cheek. He’s a great goal scorer but a bit of an imposter as a defender. Much like our other fullback really and we seriously need to fix our defence.

Rangers with David Weir conceded 146 goals in his 5-years, or 29.2 goals-per-season. (He scored 4.) 

 

Rangers with Tavernier conceded 214 goals over 7-years, or 30.6 goals-per-season. (He scored 64.) 

 

Interestingly, Weir's sides never conceded fewer than 28, yet Tavernier's side has conceded fewer on three occasions (27, 19 and 13 in those years) - and that's a defensive Walter Smith side! 

[compo 6,227]

I think we’re all agreeing that he’s a poor defender so I would like to see him further up say in the middle of a 442 formation and see if he can surge forward by taking the ball into the opposition box doesn’t do any harm to try something different.

I seem to remember sandy Jardine coming into the team at centre forward but made his name further back.

[onevision 1,454]

To move Tav further forward we would need to play with a back three. 3-5-2 or 3-4-3 etc.

He's been tried in midfield before with little success.

[compo 6,227]

2 minutes ago, onevision said:

To move Tav further forward we would need to play with a back three. 3-5-2 or 3-4-3 etc.

He's been tried in midfield before with little success.

I bow to your knowledge of the modern systems in my day it was full backs a centre half couple of halfbacks and five forwards with the instructions of go out and win the game and it usually worked .

[Bluedell 5,356]

16 hours ago, Scott7 said:

I can’t believe a succession of managers haven’t thought about playing him further forward and putting a defender in at full back (There’s a novel idea) Maybe they’ve come to the same conclusion, that he’s best attacking from a distance.

 

The folk who know about these things will tell us.

It's because modern managers want their full backs to add a lot to the team by attacking. Tactically they don't want someone who can mainly defend and isn't prone to attacking.

[Rousseau 9,508]

We've had two somewhat mistaken 'in my day' takes from @compo and @Scott7, mainly because of a difference in terminology. 

 

The W-M (or, 3-2-5) formation is actually still in use: Man City use it, Arsenal use it, and - as much as it pains me - Celtic use it. 

 

The only difference being the labels applied to the player positions. 

 

Take Man City--on paper it's a 4-3-3, with the '4' comprised of two FBs and two CBs. On the pitch, they morph into a W-M, or 3-2-5:

 

Grealish (LW) - Haaland (ST) - Mahrez (RW)

 

DeBruyne (#8) - Silva (#8)

 

Cancelo (LB) - Rodri (#6)

 

Ake (CB) - Dias (CB) - Walker (RB)

 

The RB stays to make a back-three, with the LB 'inverting' to make a double pivot - or, the old Half-backs. 

 

The old Full-backs would be Ake and Walker in this situation. But today they are just CBs. It came about because the old W-M was countered by a back-four, which then became ubiquitous. To counter the back-four, the 4-3-3 emerged. To counter a 4-3-3 ... it turns out the W-M works quite well. 

 

The other way that Full-backs are used today - which is still the most common - is actually as wingers; they would take on the Grealish and Mahrez positions, with the wingers coming inside to take up DeBruyne and Silva's positions. It's a different way of creating that front-five. In Tavernier's case, he plays as a winger; he is the furthest forward wide player, with Cantwell and Sakala playing narrower. 

 

To sum up: We still have the W-M, with Full-backs, Half-backs and five forwards, it's just that their positions have changed. Old Full-backs are just modern CBs. The old Half-backs are the modern double-pivot. The other way that Full-backs are used today are actually as wingers, which is where Tavernier plays.

 

Stay tuned next week for another great episode of 'Well Ackchyually...'

[Scott7 5,251]

Well, that clears everything up. Tav’s been a winger all along. The defensive feebleness of the team isn’t his fault.
 

How to un-feeble the defence?