We haven’t recovered from 2012

[RANGERRAB 3,268]

46 minutes ago, Bluedell said:

I did realise that but just threw in the relatively meaningless bit of info on the land. I'm not sure that the Co-op bank was that significant as such. We got similar backing from RBS.

 

The GCC point though is extremely relevant. They have been fully supported by them and got the whole area refurbished whereas Murray's plans to buy the Hinshelwood Estate were blocked and they then made sure that they built housing so that we were unable to do anything in that area for another generation, including extra high housing to try and block the view of the stadium from the motorway. All clearly deliberately planned.

 

Where I would take issue with you was on Murray's realisation. It took him a long time to fully realise the political reality that there were many politicians actively working against us. He didn't seem to court the politicians in the way that someone of his standing should have. It was the fans who reached out to the likes of Ian Davidson at the time. He just didn't seem to get the outright hatred there was for us.

 

Maybe he saved up his political influence for parts of his business that made money but I was always under the impression that he never made any effort for us on that front.

I always thought it was the BoS were Rangers bankers under Murray?

Anyway my point is ‘they’ were up to all sorts around 2000 which led Rangers(Murray) into taking rash decisions which ultimately led to 2012.

As you rightly say GCC were undoubtedly helping them & we were mostly oblivious or uninterested. The stadium was the best example. Their old board clearly said it couldn’t be redeveloped. Along came the bunnett & GCC granted permission. And where did the funding come from? Ultra soft coop banned loans? Don’t think their 3 share issues got them that much.

Edited October 12, 2023 by RANGERRAB

[compo 6,165]

2 minutes ago, RANGERRAB said:

I always thought it was the BoS were Rangers bankers under Murray?

Anyway my point is ‘they’ were up to all sorts around 2000 which led Rangers(Murray) into taking rash decisions which ultimately led to 2012.

As you rightly say GCC were undoubtedly helping them & we were mostly oblivious or uninterested. The stadium was the best example. Their old board clearly said it couldn’t be redeveloped. Along came the bunnett & GCC granted permission. And where did the funding come from? Ultra soft coop banned loans? Don’t think their 3 share issues got them that much.

They were skint 

[Bluedell 5,348]

21 minutes ago, RANGERRAB said:

I always thought it was the BoS were Rangers bankers under Murray?

Anyway my point is ‘they’ were up to all sorts around 2000 which led Rangers(Murray) into taking rash decisions which ultimately led to 2012.

As you rightly say GCC were undoubtedly helping them & we were mostly oblivious or uninterested. The stadium was the best example. Their old board clearly said it couldn’t be redeveloped. Along came the bunnett & GCC granted permission. And where did the funding come from? Ultra soft coop banned loans? Don’t think their 3 share issues got them that much.

You're obviously correct about BoS. 

 

Celtic redeveloped Celtic park around the tail end of NIAR but I think it was really in 2000 that the main loans from the Co-op started...although my recollection on Celtic finances may be flawed and you may be correct. Edit - they did receive loans of £14m in the 1999 and 2000 seasons. I don't have records further back than that.

 

Even so, the mass spending by Murray from 1999-2004 was to get success domestically and in Europe and wasn't in reaction to Celtic as such, although that's purely my opinion.

 

 

 

 

[RANGERRAB 3,268]

12 minutes ago, compo said:

They were skint 

Of course they were skint. I always remember around 1999 Alan McDonald their chief exec resigned & he slaughtered McCann for leaving them short of cash. Where did all the funding come from for the stadium & giving O’Neil 5 years transfer money up front?

[RANGERRAB 3,268]

11 minutes ago, Bluedell said:

You're obviously correct about BoS. 

 

Celtic redeveloped Celtic park around the tail end of NIAR but I think it was really in 2000 that the main loans from the Co-op started...although my recollection on Celtic finances may be flawed and you may be correct.

 

Even so, the mass spending by Murray from 1999-2004 was to get success domestically and in Europe and wasn't in reaction to Celtic as such, although that's purely my opinion.

 

 

 

 

Celtic Park got redeveloped mid 90’s. It was completed and used for the 1998 SC final which we lost to hearts. How much did it cost & who funded it? £40m was quoted which sounds ultra cheap to me. And they never raised any like that in share issues IIRC.

The mass spending you mentioned was only in the advocaat era until McLeish took over late 2001. McLeish spent much less

Edited October 12, 2023 by RANGERRAB

[26th of foot 5,841]

A couple of years before Fergus McCann showed any interest in purchasing Sellik, the then Glasgow District Council increased Sellik's land bank significantly for the sum of one penny. 

 

Glasgow District Council in 1990/91 had 102 wards, 90 of the Councillors were Labour Party representatives. The other dozen were a mixture of Nationalists, Liberals and, Tories. The GDC Planning Committee had 13 members, 11 Labour, one SNP and, one Tory. The Housing Committee had already taken the decision to NOT renovate the council owned housing in three streets immediately surrounding Sellik Park and condemned the houses. Those streets were Janefield Street, Kinloch Street and, Dalriada Street; approximately 250 families occupied the housing concerned. 

 

The Council agreed resettlement grants should be paid to the families, average payment between £4,000-£5,000. The Council would meet the costs of demolition and land clearance, the cost to the public purse was estimated at £2.5 million. The Planning Committee agreed the ground should be sold to the sole applicant, Sellik. The vote was 11-2. Both the SNP and Tory Councillors issued a statement stating several of the Councillors were Sellik supporters and, compared the sale to ICI acquiring ground for a peppercorn rate when the majority taking the decision were ICI share holders.

 

It took a few months but, the GDC Convenor, Pat Lally was forced into calling a full Council meeting to ratify the sale of three streets for a penny. A full day's debate ensued and a vote was called after the Labour Party installed a three line whip. The sale was approved by a majority of 70. 

 

Let that sink in.

 

Almost concurrently, Rangers had an agreement in place to purchase St Anthony's ground adjacent to the wee Rangers Club. The intent was to preserve the Ibrox playing surface. Planning application was submitted for an initial 2,500 all seated stadium, later rising to 4,000 and, the ground would be called, 'Struth Stadium'. The club's Reserves and Youth teams were to play at the ground. The Ants were content, future secured and no objections were lodged. It took over a year for the Planning Committee to refuse the application, citing the proximity to the Airport. The ground was ring fenced as part of the industrial estate for future applications.

 

The Herald was still an excellent newspaper in those days and covered these stories in detail. Anyone interested, go into the Mitchell Library and request to view the relevant copies from 30 plus years past.

 

 

[RANGERRAB 3,268]

38 minutes ago, 26th of foot said:

A couple of years before Fergus McCann showed any interest in purchasing Sellik, the then Glasgow District Council increased Sellik's land bank significantly for the sum of one penny. 

 

Glasgow District Council in 1990/91 had 102 wards, 90 of the Councillors were Labour Party representatives. The other dozen were a mixture of Nationalists, Liberals and, Tories. The GDC Planning Committee had 13 members, 11 Labour, one SNP and, one Tory. The Housing Committee had already taken the decision to NOT renovate the council owned housing in three streets immediately surrounding Sellik Park and condemned the houses. Those streets were Janefield Street, Kinloch Street and, Dalriada Street; approximately 250 families occupied the housing concerned. 

 

The Council agreed resettlement grants should be paid to the families, average payment between £4,000-£5,000. The Council would meet the costs of demolition and land clearance, the cost to the public purse was estimated at £2.5 million. The Planning Committee agreed the ground should be sold to the sole applicant, Sellik. The vote was 11-2. Both the SNP and Tory Councillors issued a statement stating several of the Councillors were Sellik supporters and, compared the sale to ICI acquiring ground for a peppercorn rate when the majority taking the decision were ICI share holders.

 

It took a few months but, the GDC Convenor, Pat Lally was forced into calling a full Council meeting to ratify the sale of three streets for a penny. A full day's debate ensued and a vote was called after the Labour Party installed a three line whip. The sale was approved by a majority of 70. 

 

Let that sink in.

 

 

 

After the bunnet got the club they then got planning permission to redevelop the Stade de Gadde which the old Celtic board said they wouldn’t get. Funded from where/ by whom?

They were upping the stakes and we had to do likewise. It led us to 2012

[Scott7 5,199]

9 hours ago, Bluedell said:

 

He owns the land inside the red. He literally owns the land around the stadium. Don't know who he bought it from.

The land inside the red boundary includes the football ground. Or does WH own all the land within the red boundary except the ground itself?

[compo 6,165]

I suppose it's always good to have your own kind in hig places it makes things a lot easier.

[Bluedell 5,348]

19 minutes ago, Scott7 said:

The land inside the red boundary includes the football ground. Or does WH own all the land within the red boundary except the ground itself?

I'm not an expert in property. My interpretation is that the land is ultimately WH's but the stadium is Celtic's and and they have the right to the use of the land as long as they pay the feu.