Ulster Day

[Bluedell 5,354]

I'm as bad as the press am I? We are our own PR nightmare and are always blaming the club for their lack of reaction to bad press when really what we should be saying is "I wish they were better at cleaning up our mess." We get bad press but christ we make it easy for them with this sort of thing.

 

This thread is the most interesting in a long time as it gets a lot of bears out of their denial-lined comfort zone relating to their own views on this subject. You might have roots in Northern Ireland but the point is, as if I really need to make it, that 99% of the idiots waving the Red Hand at Ibrox are doing it for religious reasons that again 99% of them don't even understand. I didn't "bring religion into it", it's already there by default when these flags are paraded around Ibrox and we all know it, so please don't insult me further with delusions I will never buy into.

 

I love Rangers. I love Scotland. Yes I do remember TBO with the Saltires and Lion Rampants because I remember how it made me feel. I wanted to call up my celtic supporting friends and say get it up ye. I felt proud. It also makes me proud when I see Saltires at our away games in Europe. You never see that from them. What do I feel when I see the Ulster flag? It's not pride that's for sure. This is because I know what it means to the vast majority of people waving them and i know everyone else knows this too. Not because I immediately equate Ulster with sectarianism.

 

I would wager that some, if not all of the folk who have replied to my posts on this thread with considered, negative rebukes think themselves to be against bigotry in general. Ask yourself why your really making excuses for this pish and if you really want to see change at Ibrox or you just want to kid yourself on that you do. Noone's fooling me.

 

NOT HERE TO WIN FRIENDS LOYAL;)

I guess there's no arguing if you can state why 99% of people are doing something. Have you never considered that it could be more of a unionist/political issue rather than a religious one?

 

Out of interest what is it you feel when you see the Red Hand flag?

 

I presume the Ulster-Scots banner is also Sectarian?

 

Gribz, Celtic fly the Irish tricolour and play Irish music at every game.

[Gribz 743]

Genuine question about the oranje day we had for Advocaat and the dutch players - does anyone think we would still have had this day if the Dutch national colour wasnt orange?? For example if it was green - does anyone really think we would have wore green all day??? - I doubt it!!

[Gribz 743]

 

Gribz, Celtic fly the Irish tricolour and play Irish music at every game.

 

 

We have a large amount of Red Hand flags at all our games - does that make all our games an official Ulster day?

[johnnyk 158]

Genuine question about the oranje day we had for Advocaat and the dutch players - does anyone think we would still have had this day if the Dutch national colour wasnt orange?? For example if it was green - does anyone really think we would have wore green all day??? - I doubt it!!

 

 

It did help i'm sure. I think any colour associated with Rangers would be the only colours we would do this with. I can't see a green day being done no

[Frankie 8,182]

I'm sorry Cotter but how can you claim 99% of people fly the national flag of NI for religious reasons?

 

Surely, most are just proud of where they come from and enjoy bringing that flag to the game?

 

As for being concerned for our image, well we can be concerned all we like but no matter the intentions of most subjects, certain people (the media and Celtic fans for example) will be offended no matter what.

 

The facts are this is nothing to do with sectarianism and to suggest so is rather unfair. Of course you're entitled to your opinion but in this case, I think you are wrong.

[bmck 117]

i agree with cotter, to some extent, so i'll answer too.

 

I guess there's no arguing if you can state why 99% of people are doing something. Have you never considered that it could be more of a unionist/political issue rather than a religious one?

 

i dont think half the people holding the flags will have any idea what unionism is, much less its historical relationship with protestantism, and the relevance both have to our culture. and anyway, who's talking about unionism? just a minute ago this was about nothing other than celebrating our players/fans from that region as though it were any other region.

 

as for the 99%, i largely agree with that. 99% of people across the whole general public dont give a flying about such 'noble' causes as tradition and politics. if they were motivated about culture and history then they'd quickly realise football isn't the best way of celebrating this.

 

do i think celtic are just harmlessly celebrating their culture? no, not for a second. they do it to piss off the protestants/anti-irish as much as they do it for love of their own culture. do i think they should be banned? no, not at all - people have a right to their stupidity, i'd just prefer we didn't descend into a tit for tat and then shout "but they do it too".

 

i think we'd be better just avoiding all this completely.

 

Out of interest what is it you feel when you see the Red Hand flag?

 

like most people i think/feel various things when i see the Red Hand flag. symbols have shared and varying meanings within a culture. i've seen people people singing "hello, hello! upto your knees in ****** blood/fuck the pope" with red hand flags draped around them at games, on the tv - certainly i've seen more of them than people actually interested in celebrating any sort of culture or tradition. it doesn't offend me in the slightest - i like energy of any sort - but the red hand flag simply isn't a neutral symbol for unionism/NI. it was when it was made, but the signification of symbols change - when it gets attached to something irrelevant to it, it evolves. the NI flag, in the end, is completely neutral to me - i couldn't care one way or the other. no matter how strong a unionist i would be, if i was one, would make me think that a sensible way of promoting it would be using it as a GIRUY to timmy.

 

the reason i dont like this is because everyone knows the stated intentions aren't the real intentions - whether you are charitable and call it mischevious, or are prone to exaggeration and call it sectarian, the apologist stance is required because there's distance/contradiction between the several meanings that could be read into it.

 

if it were upto me, i'd have given it all a swift bye. that said, if it makes people a little noisier then it's good, but all in all, i would've avoided it if it were upto me.

[Bluedell 5,354]

We have a large amount of Red Hand flags at all our games - does that make all our games an official Ulster day?

That's the fans, not the club. Celtic as a club fly the flag and play the tunes. They have an offical Irish day at every game was the point I was trying to make, and nobody in the press says a dickie bird about it.

[Bluedell 5,354]

i dont think half the people holding the flags will have any idea what unionism is, much less its historical relationship with protestantism, and the relevance both have to our culture. and anyway, who's talking about unionism? just a minute ago this was about nothing other than celebrating our players/fans from that region as though it were any other region.

 

as for the 99%, i largely agree with that. 99% of people across the whole general public dont give a flying about such 'noble' causes as tradition and politics. if they were motivated about culture and history then they'd quickly realise football isn't the best way of celebrating this.

I brought up the subject of unionism as an alternative to Cotter's claims that 99% of fans, sorry apparently they are "idiots", who wave the flags are doing it for religious reasons that 99% don't understand.

 

I also disagree with your assessment that less than 50% have any idea what unionism is.

 

I'm sure there are some neds that go along and wave the flags and don't have any idea what it's all about, but the majority of the people that I come across at home games, away games and various functions that I go to do have an understanding of such things.

 

You may disagree with their views, but it's stereotyping to dismiss a majority as not knowing anything about it.

 

I should add that I can't get excited about it personally, but if others want to do it, I don't have a problem with it.

[Super_Ally 0]

Fair point but TBO have had days where the Lion Rampant and the Saltire have taken precedence...

 

Perhaps a proper Scottish day would be agreeable though. I'd imagine it will happen actually.

 

My views on this are probably nearer to yours than Cotter's. The motives behind this are not quite what the organisers would have you beleive. It's definitely a lot to do with a giruy to the media and Celtic/anti-Gers people.

 

But I would not go as far as Cotter does in his protestations.

 

I had actually forgotten the flag day TBO organised, that looked fantastic. Hopefully as you say a "proper" Scottish day will be organised. If we did that and then also, for example a Spanish day or something else, the media/Celtic would not have a leg to stand on in trying to tarnish our supports name.

[bmck 117]

I also disagree with your assessment that less than 50% have any idea what unionism is.

 

i'd think if people were really interested in unionism they'd realise it has nothing to do with flag-flying and singing rule britannia - that they do it is enough to persuade me that they don't have any idea what it is.

 

if unionism were flying flags and singing rule britannia then its a view of britain and union thats long dead in any sort of political context.

 

as you wont get excited, i certainly wont get offended. i like people who'll dare to say *** to be honest - if your society is tailored to the sensitivities of the most sensitive people, then your society ends up weak. i just wish we wouldn't pretend its about unionism, or celebrating our players past. this is a GIRUY to celtic and their fans - its not sectarian, certainly, but no matter what apologists say, i wont be convinced that all this is motivated by any noble cause, because the majority of people (myself included) in the majority of situations are motivated by things other than noble causes. when someone starts explaining their possible noble motives for doing what they're doing, i tend to think they're lying.

 

as i said, it doesn't offend me - i'm not going to be convinced its a virtuous statement of political values though, and the fact that people are even arguing that makes me all the more suspicious of the motives. i'd rather we returned to Hello Hello, to be honest. no-one likes us; we dont, or, perhaps we do, care, because, really, if celtic fans can do it, why cant we do it? its just unfair.

 

its just another big jock knew for me.