Tannochsidebear

Nowhere have I mentioned that it is all about effort, fitness or work-rate. I think our current side has all of those three in abundance. My issue with Zelalem is that for all his quality at retaining possession, there is no end product. That pivotal role in the side HAS to be a creator of chances. He should also be chipping in with goals. Our inability to score in recent weeks (Alloa aside) I believe I covered in an earlier post, and it is about the pace we move the ball from side to side at, and the angles of triangular passing into areas that cant be defended easily. We are making it to easy for opponents and I would suggest (unscientifically of course!) that Zelalem is quite happy to keep the ball moving without ever looking for the killer pass, or if he has a chance to shoot. If that is all he is going to bring to the side, he should be the link up man to the defence, not the link up man to the attack. He may have a bright future in the game and he is here to learn and I hope he does, but I believe he needs to add a more cutting edge to his game before he can ever think about playing at a decent level regularly. Again, you put words into my mouth when saying I prefer clueless running-about, but slow getting nowhere possession football is not what brings punters through the turnstiles. Barca-Bayern do not play the same football as us, so the comparison is nonsensical. The pace they move the ball at, and in fact move themselves without the ball, is light years away from what we are doing. Would I like us to play like that, absolutely. Would Zelalem get anywhere near either of them, never. I think it was mentioned by another poster, but Zelalem reminds me of the last couple of years of Barry Ferguson's career, where he made 100 passes a game and none of them hurt the opponent. If that is truly what you want to cheer, fair enough. We most certainly do have differing opinions on the game, and that is what these discussion forums are all about. I enjoy reading your interpretations, I just don't agree with them, but I respect that you take the time to give it such detail and thought and share it and defend it on here.

And I think your infatuation with a "metronome" is totally irrelevant in our game. Give me a proper box to box midfielder who can create goal scoring chances as opposed to a 10 yard square pass specialist all day every day and watch the goals scored increase, and to hell with the pass completion rate and the possession stats when very little, if any, of it creates goals. I know which one is better to watch and is more valuable to a winning team.

There might be the odd diamond in the rough at that level (Jamie Vardy!), but I am concerned that we continue to go after young inexperienced low level operators. It is real quality additions we need to bring in, match-winners, not even more 6 or 7 out of 10 performers. We have a lot of 7/10 players, we dont have anyone who has that bit of quality to win you a game on their own. While I would be happy with the continual addition of younger hungrier players who we can potentially develop and sell on for a good profit, we must add proven quality as well. Fishing about the lower English leagues for bargains is only a part of the story. I personally think the English leagues are vastly over-rated. I have just watched (while working so not so closely) Burnley v Brighton from the second tier. Two of the top sides in that league. The game was rotten and there was a real lack of quality players on show. Go further down the pyramid and the quality gets even more diluted.

He is also a light-weight, goes missing for large chunks of the game, doesn't tackle anybody when we do not have possession, and dances about (like an Arsenal player) with airy-fairy 10 yard passes that hurt nobody. His last good game was at Airdrie, which was also one of his first games. Since then it has been downward in terms of contribution. I will ask this, for someone so good at passing, how many assists has he had? For someone so good with the ball, he has not scored and has probably had about 3 attempts at goal since he arrived. His only significant contribution is in moving the ball 10 yards in either direction. A complete luxury.

To blindly follow or lavish praise just because it is mostly going right would be wrong. My strong opinion is that Kenny Miller is a terrible football player that I think is holding the team back. Unlike the last three managers, I won't lose my job by being right on this. It is only my opinion and I have total respect for the opposite view that Miller is worthy of his new contract if some fellow Bears believe it to be the case. It's not my fault they are wrong! Forums are exactly for this type of thing, and I enjoy the debate and friendly banter. Long may it continue.

Even a broken clock is right twice a day! The magic hat must have slipped over his eyes if he thinks Miller is a good footballer.

i'll pass thanks!!

I agree with most of that BH, apart from the bit where you believe Miller has positional sense. Laugh out loud moment for me there. Think back (or watch for yourself next time) to how many times he gets caught offside, or doesn't make a run into space when a ream-mate has the ball and is looking towards him. His positional sense is like the rest of his game, rubbish! I agree that if the younger players cant get all they need from a gentleman and experienced pro like Davie Weir, then they are not asking the right questions. Miller's role, like McCulloch before him, is purely a waste of money and a shirt that could be used for developing a young prospect.

Thats not the point though I suppose with another new manager at Tannadice he might get a chance to play under MIxu. The point is he could see no future at Rangers when the manager was only interested in bringing in old pros like Boyd, Miller, Daly, Kyle etc while he was not getting a sniff. Hardie may feel the same if someone as bad as Miller (and perhaps Clark could be included in that list) keeps getting games ahead of him.

Giving Miller another year will not help Hardies chances. His lack of first team action while Miller keeps coming off the bench/starting doesn't imply that the manager rates him enough. While Hardie keeps scoring in our U20 and international U21 and Miller keeps playing shit and retaining his place, we could be seeing the Telfer scenario replaying itself.

Where to start with this nonsense! Firstly, he has brought nothing to the team since his substitution appearance against Hibs IN JULY! Absolutely nothing. He still cant trap a ball, cant pass a ball, he now has no pace, and his finishing remains abysmal. I cannot believe for a minute that Warburton has been impressed by his playing attributes this season. He might be a good influence off the field and in the dressing room, but so was Jig and we didnt give him another year (thankfully!). I have no problem if he wants to retire and take up coaching and we let him shadow Durrant in the U-20's to see if he can make the grade. As long as he is not teaching them badge-kissing or how to control a pass by hitting it further away then he might make a good coach, who knows. But to give him another year's playing contract is throwing good money away after bad to a complete mercenary who has always chased the buck throughout his career. Reading some of the comments you would think we were well placed for forwards and cash when the opposite is true. He should have been told to find a coaching role in January as he was not going to play and give his game time to Hardie (a boy with a chance of a future in the game). Is our scouting really not that good that he cannot get an experienced forward much better than this for Miller's wages down south if he wants to retain some experience in the dressing room? I am flabbergasted at this stupid move and the manager has gone down in my estimation with this nonsensical decision. I thought the days of jobs for the boys were long gone but clearly not if you are an ass-kisser like Miller you can still get by without ability.

Thanks for the kind words lads, much appreciated to take the edge off an otherwise horrendous day!!

Did the players never get a break throughout the whole of their contracts? Were they never told to have a few days off during international breaks. I think they did. I can only imagine that the players claiming this were only on one year contracts and so therefore joined the club during pre-season training and left on the final game. Anyone on two year deals would have had about 2 months off between seasons and this would have covered any holiday entitlement. I hope the club defend this action strongly. Not one of the players that left our club in summer 2015 deserve one penny more than they got. They must be named and shamed and questioned about their brass neck. They stole wages off our club for the last six months of their contracts.

The one thing I liked about W&W's signing policy last summer was the fact that each of the deals were done without a whiff of media speculation about the players involved. With that in mind, why would anyone believe press speculation about who we are going for this time? I understand these things are worth talking about on a messageboard, thats what they are for, but I hope Bears are treating media speculation about potential targets with the utter disdain that they deserve. I recall a thread elsewhere a few years ago that listed all the players we were linked with between windows in the press, well over 100 players, and we signed one player that hadnt been mentioned. That sums up our pathetic gutter sports press in this country quite well IMO, and is another reason our Scottish press should be avoided at all costs, if the blatant bias and bigotry towards our club is not enough.

We will need more than that, given that three of our regular starters are leaving next summer. We must add a touch (or two) of genuine quality to break down these stubborn defences that are only going to be better organised and harder to breach as we go up in quality of opponent. Our defending (from front to back) has to improve many times over or the St Johnstone scenario of being picked off will be commonplace as our opponents get better at taking their few chances. I just hope they realise how far away we are from being a good side and are planning appropriately. It would be easy to think we only need to tweak a little given our results to date, but the progress needs to be stepped up. Talk of bringing in only 1 or 2 in January to protect "harmony" is all good and well, but that means it will have to be 7 or 8 new faces in the summer and then hit the ground running right away in the top tier with virtually a brand new team again. I think the better way to do it will be to bring in 3/4 players each window to replace the ones that are not up to it or are returning after loan spells. Taking sound bites from the manager and board, I just have some concerns (not losing sleep or anything!) that we are going to go into next season undercooked.

Im far from panicking Bruno, believe me I am quite enjoying the football this season. I am however not getting carried away with what I am seeing as when I look at each player in our team I dont see anybody I would call a good player capable of winning titles and representing us in European competition. They are good enough for where we are now, end of. To that end I am star-gazing a little and seeing what a huge amount of work has still to be done to build our squad up over the next two windows to a competitive squad for go for 55. Our task is being helped by our main rivals continued down-sizing, but I would expect them to strengthen in summer 16. Their model has been to buy 2-4 young-ish European players at around £1-£2M and hope that one of them developes into a sellable asset for £10M. Van Dijk, Wanyama etc. This balances their books for them. That is something I would hope our management are keen to replicate. What I mean by our off-field squad, is basically the guys who will be buying our players. The Chairman, board, Robertson, McParland, Warburton & Dickson. All these guys have to working together and be good enough at their jobs for us to grow and get things right going forward. I have not seen anything to the contrary but the big tests remain in the future.

We really have to start imporivng the quality of our first team. I am concerned that we are bringing in mediocre English Championship talent and thinking this will be good enough for a go at the title next season. It wont be. This is not a go at the players we have which by and large have done the job very well so far, but there is a real lack of special quality in all areas of the pitch. Good scouts are worth their weight in gold if they can find players within our budget that will be standouts in a year or two that we can sell on. Dare i say it, the model another club has used with some success (also a lot of failures). There are only two windows before we start our campaign to win 55 against one of the worst celtic sides in the last 30 years or so that I have seen. And we have to improve to match them. Think about that and where we actually are now. Not where we have been. A lot of work has to be done in these two windows. I hope our off-field squad are good enough.

All about opinions Bruno. I don't think he is all that good, and I don't think he could lead us to next seasons title. I only mention pens to highlight his goals return from open play is not overly impressive given the amount of chances we create. He doesn't sniff out chances like a top striker does, he is all about the work-rate (which is excellent). It comes back to my point in the other thread that I don't think any of our players are quite good enough individually, although it is still very early in their Rangers careers so I hope some can develop into top class players with us.

Im not overly impressed so far. He misses far too many chances for my liking and while he works hard, his movement OFF the ball is still not at a level where it should be. When pushed wide he used to be aggressive, running straight at and past defenders, whereas in recent weeks he is looking for a pass inside most times and therefore losing his effectiveness out there too. As for English teams looking at him, he was widely available last summer and nobody bothered their arse about him, I dont see that a few goals in Scotland's second tier will suddenly have those teams thinking he is a world-beater. If he can continue his progress and score a lot of goals while working hard and get 25 goals next season then we can review his contribution. As for POTY it is of course far too early, but the point of forums is to discuss these things at any time, and Tav must have an equally great shout of that given his goals from full back. Take Waggy's pens off the total and how many does he have compared to Tav? While these two started the campaign very well and have perhaps not been as good in recent weeks, the likes of Holt, Kiernan and Wes have been improving over the course of the season, so by the time the gongs get handed out it would be no surprise to me if one of these three pick up POTY ahead of Waggy or Tav.

Having never seen him play or heard of him before we signed him, I have no idea if he has a better position than where he is currently playing for us. I will say that he looks better the further up the park he gets the ball, and he certainly doesnt look like a natural "sitter" in the holding role, so perhaps he feels that he could do better than Holt/Shiels or Zelalem/Law can do in the more advanced midfield positions. However our lack of depth coupled with Warburton waiting since July for Eustace to get fit and Halliday has had to play there due to a lack of obvious options. If you sign a four year deal and have to play four/five months in a unfavoured position, it is no big deal, especially as a Bear who is delighted to be living the dream. I like the way he is frustrated that even though he has been playing well, he believes he can play better if in another position. Plenty other players would settle just to be a regular pick.

Can you expand for those of us who will never watch Sportscene ever again please?

While the football has in the main been a huge improvement on recent years and W&W deserve a lot of credit for their initial rebuilding of a broken squad, it is becoming clear to me the more I see them that there is no real quality in our current squad. A look at the team that won the title back in 2009 after a 4 year wait would see this typical line-up; McGregor Whittaker bougherra weir papac mendes Ferguson Davis Thomson Boyd novo. Other squad players included hemdani, edu, Adam, Naismith, lafferty, Miller, Beasley, dailly, jig. Perhaps the full backs might get in, but we have still to see Tav's defensive attributes tested properly. I genuinely don't think any of our current side would get into Walter's championship winning side. While I am comfortable with stage one of our 4 window rebuilding job, I feel just about this entire side will need replaced if we are to get towards a side capable of matching our own 3IAR side, which of course was nowhere near as good as our title winners from 99 & 00. The only saving grace we have is that our only rivals on paper for the top tier title have been downsizing at an alarming rate since our demotion, and therefore the bar has been lowered to such a degree that we would perhaps have a chance of the title next season if we strengthen 4/5 positions and they keep their useless manager and continue their downsizing next summer, neither of which I expect them to do but I can live in hope for now! I would be interested in the views of my fellow Gersnetters as to how they rate this current squad and where we are at, not at Championship level, but for next year, and if you think any of our current team would get into the fairly average side from 2008-09.

I dont disagree with much of that Ian, but there is a time and a place to come out with stuff like that, and it is badly mistimed after we got beaten by Hibs, who have answered all questions asked of them since the Allan saga was finalised. I take issue with Miller because he has been a complete wage thief since his return - done absolutely nothing last year (like most of them) and has been abysmal this year, so we dont need to be giving Hibs further notice board ammunition from one of our worst players. Miller should concentrate on getting his own game in order and not the media whore he so loves to be.

Timing, content, and the person delivering it are all a joke. The sooner we get rid of deadwood like Miller the sooner we can move forward. The time to throw down a title challenge is not the day after they beat you, especially on the run Hibs are on just now which is deserving of a title contender tag. Credit where it is due, and that is to Hibs and not to Miller.

It looked more like a 3-4-3 to me from my seat, with both Wallace & Tav totally unsure of how far up (or back) they were supposed to be. Neither are midfielders and both lack the quality and experience to play in those roles. The front 3 for me were far too narrow, with McKay and Waghorn far too often not providing any width for Wallace & Tav to link up with. To me it looked like the tactic was dreamed up in the dressing room 10 minutes before kick off and looked unplanned and pretty much a shambles. This gave Hibs the first half to play with as we had too many players not knowing where they were supposed to be. It is no coincidence that Tav put in his worst shift since his arrival when he was moved into an unfamiliar role, with no assistance or link up man in front of him until we changed it in the second half. The manager has to take the blame for this error, although had we got either of the two stonewall penalties (from where I was sitting, not seen them back on tv), we would clearly have won the game. Fine margins and all that. If Wilson kicks another ball in defence when Ball & Kiernan are available I will be amazed. I thought that was the one huge mistake in bringing him back into the side, when for weeks prior to his injury he was the worst performer, and clearly has confidence (and perhaps ability?) issues. Nothing went right for him in the first half and I was commenting that it reminded me of Ricksens OF debut and I would have repeated the decision of that day and hooked him after 20 minutes and got us back to our "normal" formation. We may well have had more time to win the game had we done so. I will be very interested to see how this team reacts over the next few weeks, although we only have one game then a two week break (another ridiculous decision) until the games start to be twice weekly again. We cannot allow the lead to be cut before hosting Hibs on 28th December.