Tannochsidebear

Normally in any stooshie between those of opposing sides in the ongoing great RST saga, it is important to read both sides, and the input from FF in defending the RST position is always worth a read to balance the opinions of those who are most definately opposed to it, either in principle or in personality. This last week while all this post-AGM story has been developing, multi-page threads on here RM and FF can be read and opposing views given. In amongst the mud-slinging and personal abuse from both sides, you can usually get enough snippets of information, if you know the background, to form a picture of what really happened, and form an opinion of where the truth probably lies. Couple that with some personal emails and PM's and you can just about get to where the story is without any need for the pages and pages of garbage to sidetrack you from getting to where you need to go. So now that Mr Harris's statement that we should have heard at the AGM has been made public, correctly IMO, I have been checking on FF to see the other side of the story being put up. Not that I am doubting the accuracy of his statement, but you always have to read both sides to ensure you get the proper balance, and to hear how the allegations made have been defended. So onto what FF has had to say about this. Which is where I have the problem. There is quite simply nothing about this at all on FF. Not one thread published today on his statement. No debate, no other side of the story, not even any mud. There cannot be any bigger off-field story at the moment than this, certainly not for the online bears who know all the main players pretty well by now, and I am absolutely astonished that it has just been completely blackballed. For the biggest forum to be totally blanking the story is bad news, and further proof that the RST needs its own forum. And I even checked their Facebook page as this seems to be the big new thing (I still dont really get this facebook thing, but im trying!) but there is nothing there either. FF has never ever shirked a story that I can remember in this way before. And that has to be worrying for all those who enjoy reading the thoughts and opinions of Bears on a variety of forums. I know there have been calls from the membership and from board members of the RST for a full, prompt and complete statement to be issued by the board, but continual checking of the Trust website stills draws a blank. Of course Alan Harris's statement was only released late last night, so it could be that the RST have called an emergency board meeting for this morning to discuss the matter and a statement will follow later today. Or perhaps that is only what should have happened. Members not only want, but surely are entitled to a fully disclosed, accurate and frank explanation of affairs, and without any further delay, together with what action has been taken to resolve this sorry affair and to try to rebuild the Trust's broken and battered reputation.

A large amount of the reasoning behind our poor run of form at Sheepy is the fact that Walter has too often given them too much credit, and played 1 up front (Miller), resulting in us not scoring enough (if any)goals. With the squad the way it is now, I cannot see anything other than a Jelavic/Miller front combo, and this should help us enormously, together with the fine form of Weiss and Naismith, to create and take enough chances to win this game comfortably. I'll go for a 2-0 win for the Champions, easing off with the Turks coming up on Wednesday.

You mean they will "park the bus"?

Bain's fortunes are linked to the income generated by the club. A couple of years ago he earned a huge wad when we got to the UEFA final, the year after (Kaunas) his earnings were way down, and this year, with the CL money, he earns more. I disagree entirely that his contract has huge bonus elements attached to it that are really only earned if we make the CL group stages, of which he has very little influence, and I find it even more galling that in a year where our manager and coaches worked on without a contract (and therefore any pay rise), and players were told there was no money for pay rises, and there have been savage cuts all over the club, that he had the balls to accept the bonus element of his salary, which runs into hundreds of thousands of pounds. Perhaps waiving the bonus element and showing solidarity with the rest of the staff at the club would have been a far better move.

It wasnt said to me at all and it was not in open meeting.

I know the guy behind the doc, and I agree with you. I have spoken with him both online and in person, the latest being before the AGM on Sunday, and that was a main reason I cannot understand it not now being published, as I am confident in it being a quality document that could only enhance the rep of the RST, we all know it needs it just now.

Just as many as the players who play out of their skin just before signing a new contract!! Could the 2 be linked?

I thought he put in a very mature and accomplished performance and would have given him MOTM if not for Kyle's hat-trick. Obviously the quality of oppo is less than we normally play, but his desire to get the ball off the back line and play it forward, even going past players when he could, was something I could easily get used to seeing again and again! I dont expect him to play on Sunday, but I hope to see more starts for the boy in the not too distant future.

Some of the guys who took us to the final of the Euro Diddy cup were very valuable, like McGregor, Davis, Weir, Whittaker to name but a few, but some who have joined post-Manchester, like Miller, have performed dreadfully on that stage. Check the thread out where I discussed Miller in Europe, where in his 8 Euro appearances he has not been on the winning side once, and not scored a goal.

Thanks plg. I understand the reluctance, but even if Mr Big comes back to the table, things have moved on and the document, I'm guessing, would need altered to reflect the current situation, and therefore wont be the same document that would be used in future negotiations. I do feel we were treated badly, when a simple statement giving the facts, but giving us the boards best guess at who was involved, would have been the way to go, and that is of course what happened eventually, but not before a lot of messing around. I'm also quite sure there was no deliberate intention to treat members badly, given there were so few of us there and it basically was the same old faces as last year, and the year before........, but perhaps it is a sign of the RST's declining stature that things like this can happen unintentionally. Things just dont seem to be heading in the right direction and another year has passed with the club in a mess and the RST still fire-fighting more than being forward-thinking and productive, and even when it is productive, it cant get any credit for it as it doesnt tell anybody about how productive it has been. I appreciate you see things differently from inside, but on the outside it is still cold and pretty much silent.

as long as his new deal represents accurately his age and resale value (nil), and his value to us in Europe, i'll be happy enough.

Move along, nothing to see here......

So the big question we have all been asking all year is what will the debt be at 30 June 2010, and the answer is �£27M. This is explained as being reduced by increased turnover and profit, and being offset by historical payments for players outstanding of �£8M. There is no mention I can see of anything further being due for historical player purchases, so this years profit (less the cost of players bought) should reduce our debt still further. My reading of things is that while we will make profit, we wont spend this until we are assured of participation in the 2011/12 CL. In other words if we dont make the CL group stages next season, our profit from this season will go to cover the loss of money next season. One thing I cant quite get my head round is the staff wages still total �£28M, despite our thinner squad last season and no new deals for anyone. I trust this figure will go down again in 2010-11. I also see that despite it being a very difficult year for all players, the management staff running without contracts etc, Martin Bain did exceptionally well, earning well over �£700K, and an increase in pay of around 25% in 1 year. Nice work if you can get it eh Martin.

I dont want to have a private look at it, I want it published on the website as a testiment to all the good work KP and others put in, to show that the Trust can produce good quality work, and to stimulate debate on the issue. It could certainly be published with some appropriate notes to remind the reader of the context in which it was written. The nudge nudge wink wink comment was in relation to all the "unnamed person", "we can all guess who" "make your own mind up" comments that were issued from the top table when discussing this. I stand by my disgust at the way the membership was treated in a private meeting by some of the board, who should not be hiding behind such wording when addressing the people they represent. The way it was finally discussed was the way it should have been discussed from the start. It appears some (not you) dont get this "representation" thing.

plg, my comment on loads of changes was in relation to the 8 elected members to the board. As BD has related to, the speed at which this was done, coupled with the fact that looking at the accounts and seeing dates and resigned/appointed beside a lot of the names there, was where I got my info from. As you correctly state (and I had forgotten) some board members have to retire by rotation, and I accept that with these people included the true figure is not as large as I may have made out. An honest mistake i'm sure you will accept, but given the poor fashion in which this was done by the acting chair (no doubt nervous i'm sure and his first go at it) you will see how I came to this conclusion. The former Secretary was not told he could make the statement later. The parting comment I heard from your new Chairman was "hopefully he resigns from the board too". Not really a sign of board unity, that. I appreciate your intentions and I know you have worked long and hard for a number of years on the board, and as you say it makes sense to pass on the Treasurer's role to the CA.

Thanks to BD for a fuller round-up than I could either remember or had time for, and 1 of the points he mentioned that i'd forgotten about was a point I raised myself!! I was deeply disappointed with the facebook answer. I was deeply disappointed that Alan Harris's statement was not read out, although obviously he was partly to blame for that himself by leaving when his initial attempt to make his statement was denied, instead of waiting for AOB. I was also disappointed to note that there is a lack of desire to publish and create debate on their work on the blueprint they were asked to create for the "Mr Big". I understand some of this was leaked to the press when it was supposed to be confidential, but just to shelf it and say that it will keep in case some other "Mr Big" comes along is poor showing IMO. This should have been published on their website and perhaps it might have created some debate. We had heard that they were working on it for long enough, but for the membership to be denied the chance to read and discuss it is wrong. Yes, we have to trust the board to do the right thing, and they cant tell the memebrship everything, but they cannot then wonder why Rangers fans, members and non-members alike, think they have done nothing all year when all their work goes into the confidential drawer, not to be discussed or shared with even their own members at their own AGM. The board's secrecy and playing with words with their own membership in a private meeting with a nudge nudge wink wink was pathetic. It seems that as long as they support some good charities and get some soundbites on tv and radio, all is well. But all is not well.

No threads about the AGM on FF or RM either. Surely not an indication that the stock of the RST has fallen to a level where they are not even talked about on any of the main forums anymore! As for the AGM, a very brief summary would be; 35 in attendance. Loss of �£10K in the year. Membership income down. Report done for a "high net worth" but unnamed investor that got leaked and the investor ran away. Fundaraising events through the year lost money instead of raised money. Loads of changes in the board again, with 8 new/re-elected board members. Chairman resigned, personal/work commitments. Secretary resigned, tried to make statement, was told not to. Treasurer resigned, personal/work commitments. It wasnt a very good year, and even the few of us left that support the concept of the vehicle of a Supporters Trust cannot hide or "spin" the fact that it is not looking good at the moment. Hopefully, the new guys coming into it, coupled with the few good guys/gals already there, can start to make the necessary changes to take the Trust forward, but they have a long road ahead.

Didnt think there was a standout player on Saturday, and for much of the game thought we were a bit sluggish until we got the second goal, then we played well as United chucked it, and perhaps could have won by even more. My 2 fav whipping boys, Miller and McCulloch both had good games, there I said it, as even though Miller was his usual self with his passing, trapping, reading of the game (i.e. pisspoor) his role in the team now is to score goals, and he took his chances well, so he gets a favourable review, as I gave Boyd on many occassions for the same thing. I was fairly pleased with the efforts of Jelavic, I thought Weiss picked the wrong option at times but I was delighted with his attitude, especailly after the 2 assaults he just got right back up and went at them again. That attitude will take the boy a long way in his position, and his decision making and final ball will improve as he settles in. Always good to see a clean sheet at home as well, so I was well satisfied with the result and overall performance, and would probably have given the MOTM to Weiss, more for his attitude and desire to go past his man every time.

Too right he's hurting, his absolute hatred of us shines through completely. What I wonder is why his editor allowed such poor journalism space in a rarely-read newspaper? I mean, surely the point of an opinion piece from the Scottish press side regarding our Champion club holding the top seeds to a goal-less draw away from home would have to be positive, no? Articles like this reinforce my total paper blackout policy that I have adopted for the last few years, I would have hated to have paid money to read such dross. I wont even click on newspaper website links, as the hits generate advertising income for those who earn a living from us, but despise us all the same.

MF, the AGM's have been held on matchdays, not on matchdays, the close season, mid-season. It doesnt seem to matter when they are held, they are still poorly attended. Also, all members were informed they could forward questions/motions by email if they could not attend. They got 2 questions. It would seem that despite the good work done by some of the board, and there are a number of good bears in there, the ability of the board to attract membership, or even interest, is in quiet decline.

Just about to leave to go to it, so i'll let you know shall I?

Thanks guys for the kind comments. As 26th of foot says (and i wonder where he got his information from!!), it was a long day but the lawyer has done us proud so far, as has the truth and facts, which is harder for them to argue against. Some observers would have said that the only time the opposing lawyer won any argument all day was when he asked for it to be continued to another day as it became clear it was not going to get finished today. So we have to go to court for a 6th time in this supposedly quick and simple small claims action, but go we will, and this time they there will be nowhere else to run and judgement will be made.

How will we know if Weir is tired from playing too many games, he cant get any feckin slower than he already is!! I think the fact that Weir doesnt train as much as the rest, and takes a couple of days off to be at home, but remains one of the fittest (by all accounts) of the entire squad shows that the big man can handle 3 hours of football a week, and begs the question, why cant they all do that?

I must say also that I was a bit worried about 75 mins from kick off when the Rangers players all came out to have a walk around. You could see that most of them were on their phones, no doubt saying "thats me on the pitch at OT", and then all taking photos of the ground. My pessimistic thoughts were along the lines of "bloddy tourists, your no here tae take feckin photies, your representin the famous Rangers FC" and was wondering if they would have their game heads on or be overawed. That thought evaporated when I seen the United line up on BBC website about 45 minutes from KO, and started thinking it might be possible to frsutrate them, as I didnt think they had enough creative quality in that line-up to carve us open, to which my mates were asking about my alcohol intake!

If anybody has seen Dick Campbell at a Speakers do, they will know the phrase "ya cunt" has so many different uses!! Although when Dick says it it comes across as "ya cant"