maineflyer

The first credible statement on the issue by a supporters organisation. Of course, that's the easy bit done, the other 99.99% will be rather more difficult.

Will you be making that point to your fellow RST board members?

CB, I was just making the point that no one will be asking us which way to go, which is how it should be in an ideal world. They will simply cut a deal for whatever purposes they bring to the table and present the outcome. We will then, as you rightly say, have a choice - put up or shut up. No change there then.

I think what you mean is that others will take a decision and we'll be left to decide to take it or leave it. With the RST having squandered and squabbled their way through the last few years, amassing barely 1000 members, the chance for any meaningful consultation has long gone. Which is why I'm extremely nervous about the current RST proposing themselves as the voice of the Rangers support. and yet, without the RST, how does someone like Mr Duffy make the pretence of working with the fans?

I agree strongly that Rangers need to be talent producers. Frankly, I don't know Gough's attitude to this but I think he will base whatever he does on pride and motivation, without which no one will succeed. I think he would bring a togetherness upon which all sorts of things could be cultivated. See your point though.

I still get confused about this. Is the RST the mouthpiece of FF or is it the other way round?

And when you've made up your mind, how will you express that decision? Are they proposing to give you a seat at the table because I haven't seen my own invitation fall through the letterbox yet?

I don't know who Heather is but I thought he did a very good job at Livingston but I'm not sure that is the issue, nor was it ever going to be a meaningful assessment of suitability for the Rangers job. Scot Symon managed Rangers for 13 successful years. He came to the job without relevant experience of management elsewhere and it disadvantaged him not a jot. Who will question Jock Wallace's managerial pedigree, did it hold him back? We currently have one of the most experienced managers in the game and that isn't exactly establishing a strong correlation between experience and ability either.

I agree there no good jumping into the fire just to escape the heat of the frying pan. However, I was referring to Murray's dishonesty with respect to Rangers. If they don't directly affect rangers (I know, I know) then what he does in his other business interests are of no concern to me.

I understand completely why many will disagree but I'll stick with what I've said for years and start measuring Richard Gough for the manager's jacket.

For years now, the natural reaction of the RST to anyone who doesn't unquestioningly fall into line has been "no one likes us, we don't care", which is a whole lot less than helpful. It is also the exact opposite of the role for which they have actually signed up. After reading the OP it took me five minutes of basic research to reveal very good reasons to check further into Mr Duffy's standing as a businessman, never mind his suitability as an investor in Rangers. Surely this is what the RST leadership should have done immmediately they heard of him, and conveyed any questions first to Mr Duffy for clarification and then via their members to the wider support. Criticising those fans who chose to let some light into the debate is both typical and eternally revealing. I'll say it again, in my own, strictly personal, opinion the current leadership of the RST is not up to this task and should not be trusted to make any decisions on behalf of you and me.

I admit I didn't see it at first. I first started to worry how we were being run in the mid/late 1990's around the time when Walter Smith resigned. After all those years of spending and building it gradually dawned on me that we hadn't actually built anything. Then the Advocaat spending really concerned me since even then it was dubious if that could be endured and for the first time I started to wonder if the club was being put at serious risk. By the time Eck arrived there was no need to wonder, we were heading for big trouble. And still the support kissed the Murray arse. Like you say, once you started taking a serious look at the way Murray operated, it wasn't hard to see the man was basically a scheister, a fukking blowhard of the worst kind. And the slimey bastard is still here ..... and still the support won't attack him. You have to conclude we get exactly what we deserve.

Reading Murray's comments again, I'm really quite staggered by the sheer dishonesty of the man. If you didn't know any better, you'd never suspect this was the same man who's inept leadership of Rangers has brought the club to it's knees. He talks like some sleighted bystander. Five minutes in a locked room Sir David ....... with me ....... and this pencil.

Rangers legend Richard Gough has told the powder-puff Ibrox side to do their fighting on the park. Madjid Bougherra and Kenny Miller had to be pulled apart during a training ground bust-up last week as we revealed yesterday. And nine-in-a-row skipper Gough insists it's time Gers showed more battling spirit in games. He said: "Looking at the last two games against Stuttgart and Aberdeen, Rangers should show more fight on the park. "Maybe this will bring something out in them. "Maybe Davie Weir will tell them 'let's not fight with each other, let's fight other teams more than we have done. "In the past two games, Rangers haven't laid a glove on their opponents. That will be a worry for Walter Smith." Miller and Bougherra scrapped after the Scotland star criticised the Algerian World Cup ace for returning from international duty late. Gough insists he understands Miller's grievance - but reckons he should not have slated him publicly. He added: "It's funny because, in my time, there were a lot of fights that didn't get into the press. "It seems this was only a wee flare-up but it got out. "Obviously, a couple of things have happened. "Bougherra has come back late and a couple of lads have criticised him publicly. "That wouldn't have happened in my day, either. "These things normally happen when you start to get put under a bit of pressure - and Rangers are under pressure because they are not playing well." Alexander Hleb helped Stuttgart cover themselves in glory at Ibrox. What Richard Gough can't stomach is that the Belarussian star wasn't covered in bruises. Rangers legend Goughie could barely believe what he was watching as his old club crashed to their latest Champions League defeat. Ex-Arsenal midfielder Hleb didn't so much run Gers ragged last Tuesday night. He strolled it. Gough thinks back to the nine-in-a-row days when opposition players really had to earn their Ibrox wins. Now he reckons they're being gifted them - with Hleb and others given far too much respect. Gough said: "We had a core of very strong characters and I think that's why there were bust-ups as, mentally, they were strong. "The Hateleys, McCoists, Gorams, John Browns, Stuart McCalls, Ian Fergusons - a lot of nasty people in the best possible way. "I think that is what Rangers are sometimes missing right now. A few nasty pieces of work. "I read a great quote after the Stuttgart game that I would have stuck up on the wall. "Hleb was their best player and he came off the park saying he didn't have a scratch on him. "I'm surprised Walter Smith hasn't got that up on the wall. I know the game has changed in terms of referees clamping down. "But when he comes out and actually says he expected a rough, tough physical game and didn't get a scratch, it's a surprise. "That should stick in the defenders' minds. "That should be an alarm bell, a light going off in the heads of the defenders. "When I was defending, I would say that if people are going to come into our area of the pitch then they're going to get hurt and we'll see how brave they are. "That was our job. If they wanted to come into our penalty box, they were going to find tough people. "Sometimes I feel that is not happening. It was too easy for Stuttgart to tip-tap their way around." Gough reckons the reaction of the fans to the recent defeats is what's most worrying of all. These days he believes they accept second best. He added: "I feel there is a dearth of quality. "But I was at the Stuttgart game and even the crowd weren't their usual selves. "They weren't getting on the team's back because they maybe realised it simply wasn't there. "It was a really strange atmosphere at Ibrox that night, like an acceptance. I was sitting with my friend and saying if it was 10 years ago, we'd be getting booed off the park. "There is a lack of something and maybe it just comes down to quality. "Stuttgart are near the bottom of the German league, yet played very well. The thing is, though, you can only play as well as you are allowed to. "It looked like men v boys last week and that was a disappointment. "It's funny because with the difference of three or four players - guys like Cuellar, Darcheville, Cousin and Ferguson - that team got to the UEFA Cup Final. "But having four or five players of higher quality in the spine of your team can make a huge difference." Gough has heaped high praise on Davie Weir in days gone by. Now he sees an ageing veteran beginning to look his years. He added: "Davie was going well, but then I saw him saying he was starting to feel tired. That happens when you lose a few games, though. It's okay when you're winning. "I was back here to see the Scotland matches against Macedonia and Holland, when he made a wee mistake. I think that has knocked him. "He seems a bit more tired than this time last year. "But he's 39 now and he shouldn't even be playing for Rangers when you think about that. He has done a remarkable job."

Good words gisabeer, really good words. The trouble is that it IS about Murray and it IS about Smith and it IS about fan apathy and it IS about the RST being hijacked and it IS about weakness and self-interest. And you're right too that we do need to stand up and be counted but what does that mean? Does it mean protest, does it mean boycott, what does it mean? I'm damned if I know anymore because the few radicals (and I count myself as one) have been ridiculed and discouraged at every turn for a decade. Personally, I'm growing tired of it all because too many who could and should have helped have actually spent too much of their time protecting the very people who were destroying the club. Now I'm really not sure if there is enough of the club left to be worth fighting for. There are plenty of mouths who will pile a thousand words in a post on a website but act like performing seals at every game. Are they worth fighting for? The longer this decline has gone on, the more obvious it is to me that this isn't the club I grew up with and these are not the supporters who once stood on our terracing. Maybe something will rise from the ashes yet but what I can see is that it isn't nearly bad enough yet for the average fan to get mildly annoyed, let alone bang the door of Ibrox in protest. And if anyone doesn't think it's worth going to that trouble then you know what, it probably isn't.

He's the only poster I've ever had on an ignore list but at least I know I'll never have to look at another of his ridiculous posts again. Thankfully.

I've just had a look at the 10 "Grantly" companies listed in creditsafeuk and it's more scene of devastation than a credible group of companies. There is very little financial information and what there is woun't impress anyone. Of course, for all I know, this may not not be a fraction of Mr Duffy's business empire but if it's typical of his set up then it would sent warning signals to me at least. Low credit ratings all over the place little cash to be seen, creditors high/receivables low. Oh dear, I really hope he keeps his rreal business affairs under anpther name. Mr Duffy shows 22 directorships, of which eight appear to be active - with four having no credit rating at all and the other four looking decidedly unhealthy. What exactly is it he's supposed to be bringing to the table again?

Indeed it is Craig.

Strange, I've been posting the same thing ever since he "stepped down". You should read more.

What I think is that you need to calm down a bit.

There's a lot of pious shite being written about this. Personally, it seemed like the perfect gesture at the end of a really awful performance.

It's called being holier than thou.

He holds something alright but it isn't the direction of the club. He hasn't had that in his hands for about ten years or so.

Unfortunately this is where the fact and the desirable outcome have to be viewed from different angles. No one can tell you they cannot win this title, that's a fact. But can they win this title - there are no such certainties, only aspiration and belief. If only the presentation of one fact would guarantee the appearance of another. Sadly, it is not so.

You know, something is missing here. On various topics, we're debating whether the manager should stay or go, whether his tactics and man management are good or bad. Of course it's in the nature of these things that supporters will take different views but surely, somewhere in the equation should be the voice of the people whose job it actually is to judge the manager. Why is it that Rangers have such difficulty setting standards and targets for their managers - and then judging them accordingly on whether these targets are met? Where are the directors, where is the chairman in such dreadful times. Between the club and the Supporters Trust we seem to have captured the market in incompetence. No one is going to convince me that what we are seeing on the park is acceptable for Rangers and it hasn't been for several seasons. Yet there seems to be a profound culture of abdication throughout Rangers. Any number of other clubs would have switched on the red warning light above the manager's door long ago but we seem content to leave the manager to drift and the supporters to squabble. Of course this is symptomatic of a club in disarray but, let's face it, this didn't start yesterday or even last year. This has been the way at Rangers for many years. Far too much time over the years has been spent in indecision and the board of directors must take complete responsibility.