maineflyer

We all know this is an orchestrated campaign and that it is at the very least tolerated by the two main political parties. Since Murray was never able to get over his embarrassment at the cultural landscape he found at Rangers, the club has bent its knee to every bigoted critic that came along. All we can do is keep our own heads up and don't succumb to the same defeatism. I'm only sorry to see some on here apparently too willing to share Murray's embarrassment.

Agree with much of the comparison being made between Cuellar and Bougherra. Cuellar was twice the player tbh and there nwere time in that UEFA cup run when he seemed to be keeping us in games single handedly. The way he's playing at the moment, Villa will be lucky to hang on to him for more than another season. Bougherra on the other hand will probably struggle to get an offer from a top club.

I don't think it's a non-story at all. I think it's the latest in an incessant line of anti-Rangers propaganda coming out of News International newspapers in this country. It's a one-sided campaign to smear Rangers and anyone connected to it. Do you really think they couldn't come up with balancing items about the other side, of course they could but they don't and won't. This isn't about Dick Campbell or the songs he sung. It's about establishing us as a pariah community. I'd like to think some of us still cared about that.

You're obviously far too clever for me, otherwise you wouldn't keep trying to make the point. Why don't you waste your time and vast intelligence breaking down whatever you think would benefit from it.

Was it about religious intolerance? I don't think it was. But feel free to start another topic about religious intolerance if that's what you're into.

Well don't you promote it then and your world will be cushtie..... but why introduce religious intolerance into the topic?

I think this debate loses a lot by trying to argue whether Walter Smith is a good or bad manager. He's obviously neither and both, depending on what benchmark you use or what perspective you adopt. If you start with PLG then Smith is indeed a steadier of floating transport vehicles. If you start with Bill Struth or Scot Symon then he doesn't look so good. The bottom line is that how you view Walter Smith depends entirely on what you think is an acceptable standard for Rangers. I've been around a while and my opinion is that standards and expectations have plummeted dramatically. We're defending players and managers, forgiving performances and conduct, that would have been unimaginable thirty years ago. I can't speak for others but it really pisses me off to hear that we're delighted Broadfoot is back to steady the defence - it's not a personal insult to the guy but if that's where we are, if that's what keeps us happy then either this club is dead altogether or we're going to have to re-invent it all over again. It really doesn't matter if Walter Smith is good or bad, what's important here is that he's not good enough.

Come on, there's no gain in sitting on fences. I generally don't use such language and never was one to use the f.t.p. add on - but why the cringe? If someone else wishes to use words that I don't care to then why should my first reaction be to condemn? Who the hell are UEFA to condemn in turn - who put them in charge of social morals or made a footballing organisation the arbiter of human behaviour? I certainly didn't. Do UEFA pass laws that govern you or me? I don't think so. That fact is that society has become so cowed that our first reaction to any 10p tyrant is to leap into line and look around for those who haven't done so. We're farmed like sheep and generally behave accordingly. Conformance is the new religion and fear is the same old weapon. Personally, I'm all for the Dick Campbell's of this world. From all I've seen of the man he's honest and he's real, I'd rather have that than all those corrupt self-servers in Geneva. Like you say, these people have no interest in the worst excesses of football fans. They're only interested in the dazzling white, marketing dream of the Champions League - so interested in fact that they turn blind eyes to any refereeing "mistakes" that ensure the results match their marketing agenda. Sing up Dick.

I don't think it is ridiculous. Small hard core yes, wider membership not a chance.

I don't usually pay a lot of attention to this end of the Rangers spectrum but exactly why shouldn't someone say f.t.p. if that reflects their opinion of the catholic church which, let's face it, has little ebnough to comment it and an abundance of reasons to despise it. Is it the "f" part that offends, or the "p" part? If it's the former then I'm slightly surprised, since the same expletive is used without any such comment in a hundred other ways by the same people. If it's the "p" part of the phrase then I simply don't accept that the head of the catholic church, God's bloke on earth, is above contempt or beyond criticism, especially while he refuses to take any action to address the rempant paedophilia amongst his shepherds. Anyway, expressing views on the catholic hierarchy is hardly justification for condemning songs that themselves have no sectarian content whatsoever. We all know that this is simply because it affords the writer another opportunity to fabricate a case against those Rangers and their bad protestants. Perhaps if these cheap-rate journaists spend more time revealing the sordid empire building of the global catholic mafia, they would not only find more substantial wrong-doing but would be able to do the world a favour in the process. If there is a more insidious, manipulative, power-driven, destructive organisation on this planet that the catholic church then it has yet to announce itself. Of course, these journalists themselves are products of the catholic mind-schools, the Scottish madrassas that leave them little scope for either personal opinion or honest appraisal. Sing up Dick, I'd rather have you with all your flaws than a thousand arse-weary ex-choirboys with laptops.

Fair enough Gribz, he isn't all bad. Maybe Calscot is right and Walter is an OK 7 out of 10 manager. Hell, even I thought it was a relief to see old Walt being interviewed as Rangers manager after the PLG debacle and the inexperience of Eck. Believe it or not I really like Walter Smith, always have done. He is what he is and is a stout and loyal Rangers man. But he does have some consistent weaknesses and those can't be ignored either. My grievance isn't actually a personal one with Smith. It's a much more general complaint that standards we once held to be part of the fabric at Rangers have been let slip almost completely. I watched celtic beat us 7 times on the trot and hardly a whisper came from the board, let alone any threat to the management. Winning just seems to be less essential than it once was. BTW, the PLG comment simply meant that if he had followed better managers, the impact of what Water did with both Scotland and Rangers wouldn't have been half as big a deal. He got a lot of credit for that but you and I could have done better than Vogts or PLG. Nevertheless, he did steady the ship and in the process established a new urban myth.

I've always regarded Smith as one of the luckiest managers in the business. Lucky to have lived off the Souness signings for most of his first term. Lucky to have had players for so long who could virtually manage their own onfield performances. Lucky to have been up against a hugely ineffectual celtic for so long. Lucky to have had unbelievable funding to cover his inadequacies. Lucky to have arrived back after the debacle of PLG at a time when fans had finally been persuaded to lower their sights. Lucky to still have a job really. He's good Rangers man but, frankly, as a manager he's nothing special, probably second rate would be an appropriate description. When you think that Scot Symon got the bullet for one bad game against Berwick, it's unbelievable that Smith has survived for so long and barely credible that there are still fans going out of their way to back him.

To be fair, I didn't suggest that nothing had happened, I simply mentioned what I've read on other forums this morning. What I'm pointing out is the almost universal lack of comment about what seems quite an important and current issue. It's not as if we usually restrict our comment to the production line of new information. Maybe everyone is just talked out, maybe it's something else. Either way I find it interesting that even those who could debate nothing else only a few days ago are now refusing any invitation to do so.

How sweet would it be if they not only failed in their nonsense to get Rangers fans to cover their costs for the repalyed game but also ended up having to refund income from the original event?

Sorry to disturb your silence again. You may be right but fans usually comment on what takes their interest. I mean, we don't actually know if we'll sell Bougherra in January but many still offer opinion on it. My point is that this is a big topic that seems to have slipped from view on almost all fronts at the same time. You'd almost think it had been stage managed. Personally, I think there's been a general realisation that things are relatively stable on the financial front after all and that there probably is not, nor ever has been, any real action on the issue of Murray's shares. In other words, both the fear and the hope have gone out of most people, leaving only a dull numbness.

It's interesting that the single biggest concern for the future of the club has been placed quietly on the back burner on most Rangers forums. No one seems to know and few even want to hazard a guess as to whether TOSIT has left the scene or if it was ever here at all. More or less the only comments currently being put forward seem to be speculating whether any sale of the club will take place within one year or longer. Even the rank speculators seem to have decided this has become barren territory. What's going on ...... as it were?

Perhaps it's being diverted into heavy work issues this last week or so, coupled with the diversion of the AGM and the sad end to another Euro campaign, but I find myself not at all informed about the current RST activity. Are they still convinced there a TOSIT? Is that still held to be Graham Duffy? Or have the chairman's remarks on Monday put an end to current plans? Does anyone know if anything is still being actively pursued or are they marooned by circumstance? More than anything else, I'd like to understand what the RST feels are still achievable options - to what extent have the 17 plans been pruned?

Nevertheless TB, if the praise is justified then it has to be right to offer it. I've never seen much in Martin Bain until the last few weeks when, albeit from a distance, he seems to have either developed a bit of passion or else found the confidence to show it.

Murray Park means nothing to me but is probably in more need of re-naming than anything else at the club. Ibrox on the other hand is my/our link with all those millions of fans who have stood on those slopes over many decades.

Actually, the difference is that McLeish wants to learn and improve while for a long time now Walter Smith has believed he didn't have to.

Humility has been in short supply at Ibrox and amongst Rangers fans in general for a long time now. It's perhaps not the worst of conditions to refamiliarise ourselves with. The "no one likes us, we don't care" attitude hasn't been helpful and the rank arrogance in the Rangers boardroom has been totally destructive, ultimately and ludicrously also being brought to bear on the club's own fans. It's my own opinion of course but David Murray has been a disaster for Rangers, as have many of his appointments on and off the park. But as fans we could also do with taking a look at our own contribution. Too many of us have been prepared to swallow some quite awful bullshit and have acquiesced when perhaps truer hearts would have questioned more openly the taking apart of a great club and a long tradition, much of which is now lost forever. This season's Champions League is just part of the harvest we are going to have to reap before this episode passes. What I really hope above all else is that, collectively, we actually learn something from this and it persuades us not to repeat the mistakes of the last twenty years.

Uber and out, mein soandso.

I think they should all leave well alone. We're never going to get the sort of money that would make a real difference so I'd just as soon keep it clean.

I don't have any difficulty with the language or literal translation but it's a phrase that's typically carries quite negative connotations.

I don't believe there is any misdirection going on. I think there is only the rpetence of action where none really exists. BTW, wtf is an 'uber fan'