The Real PapaBear

Of course you can, and nobody is claiming anything else. I can completely respect, whilst fundamentally disagreeing with, the view that Scotland is better off in the union - and would never suggest that anyone who held a different view to mine is any less Scottish for holding the view they do - however flawed . Having said that it strikes me as oxymoronic to say that one is a proud Scot and proud Brit but isn't a nationalist. Pride in your country *is* nationalistic by definition. The only question is whether you believe your country is best served by the union with England.

hmmm. I'd be grateful if you could define the difference for me.

I may have read a better post in my 21 years of internetting, but if I have, I can't remember it. Stunningly good stuff.

"has become"? I put it to you, sir, that you started out with your mind made up about scottish nationalism. I say this because if you compare the records in office of the SNP v either of the westminster governments which have been in place since the SNP were elected, you cannot reasonably fail to conclude that Scotttish nationalism has been good for this country, whether it be higher education, the scottish NHS, free eye exams, care for the elderly, investment in renewable energy, investment in transport infrastucture, - the list goes on and on. You know, stuff that used to be considered a British birthright? Stuff that you now only find practiced in Scotland. Maybe because we are now protected against the worst of Tory ideology?

I think you're confusing insulting a political standpoint and insulting people who vote for it.

Who have I insulted?

Same here, bud. European first, Sottish second, British at the Olympics and at passport control.

That's actually a very good shout, bud. McCall would be close to my first choice if I was putting together the best Rangers 'team' - rather than just the best XI. A bit like Scholes at ManUtd, the whole was much greater than the sum of the parts with McCall. He's possibly the most underrated Rangers player ever. Curious, though, that you think Hutton and Stevens were that close. The only competition I could see for Stevens at RB would have been Sandy Jardine. With Hutton, he'd beat anyone to the by line, but then would be as likely to put the ball into the stands as into the box.

I'd argue that they haven't - indeed, that it's not even possible for a political party to take over a national identity. What they have tried to do is represent aspects of the Scottish identity - progressive, modern, ambitious, confident, independent, forward-thinking, open-minded, internationalist - and allowed the unionist parties to represent other aspects of the Scottish identity - reactionary, small-minded, timid, cowardly, dependent, craven, backward looking, isolationist....mind you, that's just my personal view

yes, that's a fairly well accepted viewpoint and has much to do with the arrival of the shipworkers and their families from Belfast, whose allegiance to Britishness was much, much stronger than the native Scots population. (People tend to forget, or not to know in fact, that Scotland was much more of a separate country until the 60s than it is now, communication and travel being what they were, there wasn't the immediacy and integration that there is now. Up until then, people would work on Christmas day here, for example, since this was a celebration of almost no importance to us, whose big celebration was Hogmanay). I think there was always a certain identification of Rangers as being, not so much the 'Protestant' club until then, but more of the 'Not the Irish Catholic club'. The arrival of the shipworkers, coupled with the natural post-war feeling of belonging to something greater that had just experienced unparalleled suffering, i.e. Britain, helped push us in the direction of being overtly "establishment". It's true you would always see union jacks in the crowd, prior to the 70s/80s, but they were nowhere near as numerous as they have been of late and it was more common to see flags which looked more like the French tricolour. What it never did, (on a side note), was push us in the direction of Conservative, right-wing politics. This is something which has only arisen as the British nationalism associated with certain elements of the fan base has become more strident and antagonistic and, as is a prerequisite for voting Tory, nasty. The idea of working class people voting Tory was utterly ludicrous until the time came when the "working class" ceased to exist and people started voting 'against' things rather than 'for' things.

There ye are. Fixed that for you, bud.

...and what is there is my post that is at odds with that?

Spot on with that post, bud. I reckon the strident Britishness thing started largely as a reaction to the Troubles in Northern Ireland and to our hygenically challenged friends in the east end supporting the Republican side. Back in the sixties union jacks were flown at the stadium much, much less than they are today, being seen as an 'English' flag.

He might not have started on the right on the teamsheet, but he would often go for a wander across to the other side if he was getting no joy on the left. Basically, Laudrup played where he wanted.

Goram - Sub Chris Woods Stevens - Sub Jardine Gough - Sub Amoruso Butcher - Sub John Greig Numan - Sub Davie Robertson Durrant - Sub Albertz, Baxter - Sub Barry Ferguson Gascoigne - Sub Trevor Steven Laudrup - Sub Davie Cooper Not too worried about formation with this four. Just put them on the park, give them a ball and tell them to get on with it. McCoist - Sub Mo Johnston Derek Johnstone - Sub Hateley

aye, like a suicide bomber with 20kgs of semtex strapped to his chest

they'll be doing what they should be doing; putting money in the bank to make sure they can outspend us every year until they have 10 or more in a row. They don' have to spend more than a pittance to win the scottish league

aye, but....he's already been sent off once, and now he's trying to sneak back on, wearing a false moustache hoping nobody will recognise him, like a Groucho Marx with Tourettes

yes, well now you do, so don't do it again! Leave that colonial patois where it belongs - in the 'locker room'

That's kinda what makes Gersnet different - people here like to debate substantive issues and the debates on the points in question can be robust, but there's generally little need to worry about offensive behaviour and gratuitous insults. Generally.

...and his fondness for the word "appeasers" and love of Charlie Green. I'm not saying it is reaper, but it's definitely reaper.

you got that right. Contrast and Compare: Hundreds of dregs in their support let off flares (illegal), invade the pitch (illegal), indulge in sectarian chanting (illegal) throughout the entirety of the game and mock the death of Drummer Rigsby (immoral and disgusting). Scottish media reaction? Nothing. Zilch. Nada. The club describe the events as a 'carnival atmosphere' and are allowed to get away with this. A handful of dregs in our support indulge in sectarian chanting (illegal) for a short period in the Berwick game. Scottish media reaction? All hell breaks loose, sanctions are threatened and the club are forced into an immediate apology. Where exactly is Mr Traynor and wtf is he drawing a salary for?

Why not, since you are the ones making the claims, back up your paranoia with some facts, rather than throwing insults at people who question its validity? First of all, who is this "we" that are now the "second class majority"? Second, in what ways exactly are we "second class"? Thirdly, in what ways are "their" behaviours any different to "our" behaviours? And as a sidenote, the level of casual and gratuitous offensiveness of crucible's posts puts me in mind of 'reaper' - sock puppet perchance?

I didn't say you owed calscot "an explanation" but if you're going to dismiss a post simply as "utter rubbish", I think there's an expectation that you explain why the post is rubbish, take the points he made and put a counter argument.

Galloway, yes - as long as he was kept away from domestic affairs and put in charge of foreign policy