The Real PapaBear

It's more what he *doesn't* say that's the problem. We were found innocent of all the trumped up charges brought against us for crimes we didn't commit and those we were found guilty of came as a result of the actions of a fly-by-night crook and had nothing to do with Rangers as it had existed for 140 years previously. These were the actions of a criminal and not of an established football club. Of this, Tom makes not a mention. According to Tom, Rangers FC was the perpetrator of crimes and not, as was actually the case, the victim of crimes. A crook was able to take over our club illegally. This crook was allowed to wreak havoc and destruction whilst the authorities, footballing and financial, stood by and watched (and waited?) - and whilst members of the Rangers board were resigning and/or calling for action against Whyte. We were found not to have had any sporting advantage as a result of the (legal) EBT scheme, the scheme for which we were made unsaleable and ultimately forced into liquidation; the scheme for which they wanted to take away our trophies and titles Hearts, on the other hand, deliberately lied, misled and defrauded their own supporters by taking season ticket money for tickets which they knew would never be printed. Not only that, they lied and tricked their way, by using the proceeds of this fraud, to survive to the end of the season, thereby relegating Dundee and stripping people there of their livelihoods. Of this, Tom makes not a mention.

I missed that game. Who scored?

Gary, mate, rearrange these words to make a sentence. "get.tae.fuck." Actually, they're fine as they are.

if I understand britney's arguement it is this: On the one hand UEFA, the SFA, the ECA, the Scottish Courts, Lord Nimmo Smith and the Advertising Standards Authority all said and continue to say that Rangers is the same club. On the other, a tabloid hack with newspapers to sell, a Yorkshire carpetbagger with a buck to make, two ex-Rangers in the immediate aftermath of the turmoil and some bloke named 'Boal' said a year ago that we're not (although at least 4 of those have since changed their opinion). As GS says, you'd have to be a moron to really believe that Rangers doesn't exist although he could have added 'bigot' as well. It's not rocket science; it's really not. The club was founded in 1872. The club became so successful and attracted so many spectators that it formed a company to run its affairs in 1899. The club played football; the Company ran the organisation, raised funds, did the admin and took care of the legalities. The club played in blue jerseys; the Company wore suits. The Company employed people to play football for the club. That company went into liquidation in 2012. The club's affairs are now managed by a new company; Hence Newco and not Newclu. Brilliant article by the way, amms .

Absolutely. Conversing with a woman who has no sense of direction and sayings things that make no sense at all? That's an environment in which I feel very much at home

you're strongly ambivalent?

Nah, Mick'n'Keef are too classy to have a pop at the Jambos. I've got mixed emotions. I know you can't always get what you want, and I've got no expectations, but this could be the last time that we can show any sympathy for these devils because it's all over now. But you'd be a fool to cry for them, even though it's sad sad sad and a lot of Jambos will be shattered and needing some kind of emotional rescue. Me? I'm happy.

"Schadenfreude", the pleasure in others' misfortune would be too much; "Schadenquietsatisfaction", might be closer to what I'm feeling about them.

No, No and thrice No. Whether or not we went Newco was immaterial. The SPL could have and should have accepted that the new company was the inheritor of Rangers FC and thus owned the Rangers share in the SPL. They chose not to recognise this (legal) fact and instead threw us out of the league. See?

We were sent to SFL 3 because the clubs in the SPL chose to send us there. They decided to play to the gallery of bigots and people with an unquenchable hatred of Rangers and refused to accept that the purchase of Rangers FC by Charles Green's consortium was a legitimate continuation of the Club - despite the new owners of the Club having bought the Club's share in the SPL. They chose to expel us from the SPL to punish us for the misdeeds of the criminal who had illegally purchased us and on the pretext that we were a "new" club. Something that the world and his dog, from UEFA to the Advertising Standards Authority, knows to be untrue. Had they wanted to, they could have accepted the continuation of RFC in the SPL instead of finding us guilty of crimes we hadn't committed.

I think you're misreading what he says, mate -it's clearly not a threat. it's blackmail.

i have a lot of time for Strachan and if he got the gig I wouldn't be burning scarves, but he wouldn't be my first choice. That, given our present position, would be Jimmy Calderwood.

It will never happen, but if it did I wouldn't be bothered. Strachan is a guy I have a lot of time for; he's not "celtic minded" even if he did manage them and he's a real football man and a decent human being. Can't ask for much more from your manager.

yes, but that's why they are on RM and not Gersnet, where we tend to be smarter than the average bear

remind me? David Preece is.....? Is he the guy from The Office?

I think Tom English is quite right on this one. Either Mather is playing to the gallery with his promise of some ice-cold, mafia style retribution or he's being deeply foolish by publicly announcing such an agenda. In either case, it's another example of a Rangers director missing an opportunity to keep his mouth shut. By all means, deal with those people - but keep it quiet until the deed has been done.

That's really cynical, GS. I mean, what sort of club would be so morally bankrupt as to do something like that just to achieve a sporting advantage? Surely nobody in this country? Surely.

Spot on, mate. I hope that the club are aware of the seriousness of this issue for (I'd say) the majority of fans. If the club were ever to do something like this, what exactly is it we'd be supporting? Yes, it would be financially beneficial to us to move up a division. And? So what? Yes, it would make celtic's cakewalk a year less prolonged, but again, so what? Everything they have won since 2012 has been tainted anyway. We have two season tickets among three people in our family - and if this ever went through, we're all agreed we'd be giving them up.

The first place we should start is with the BBC and jump on them every time one of them, their guests or contributors comes out with the lie of Rangers being a new club. If you repeat a lie often enough it begins to take hold in the mind of the public.

As a newt, I'd wager

not sure I'd agree with that - how many of the Internet community are season ticket holders of know season ticket holders and know what they think? From personal experience, I'd say the "internet community" are pretty much representative of the support as a whole. I agree with the point about us all wanting the best for the club, though. There are guys posting for a return to SPL2 that I have a lot of respect for, but totally disagree with on this issue (- totally disagree with to the point that if Rangers joined this sham, I'd be finished with football -) even though those beliefs represent a red line for me ( and my first game was 1969) but I'm not going to personally attack them for their viewpoint because I respect the fact that they believe honestly that this is the best thing for Rangers.

I have a lot of time for you as a poster, mate - but your arse is totally out the window on this one. What is this "Scottish football" you have in mind when you speak about the "greater good"? Is it the SPL clubs, who you would have us crawl back to, who tried to kill us? or is it the SFL clubs who actually saved us, who you would have us betray? if we are not about steadfastness, loyalty and dignity, what are we about?

Weellll....no; it's about both First, there's the revenge, after that, let's see where the chips fall.

How would you define the greater good? Greater for whom? Greater for the SFL, who we would be betraying? Greater for the SPL who tried to kill us? Greater for us, when we have no integrity or honour left?

“A Man Without Honor is Worse than Dead.” ― Miguel de Cervantes Saavedra Substitute Club for Man. Without honour, there is no point or purpose to the football club - and if we accept a place in SPL2 without the appropriate apologies and compensation and turn our back on those who helped us, we will truly be a club without honour. The Tims and others couldn't kill us, however much they tried. Don't let us do the job for them.