Frankie

Of course - just highlighting the fact that politics is an essential (though perhaps murky) part of making this work actually.

The guy is at the lash - couldn't play against Celtic because of a cold. While his contribution on the park is a good one, there are increasing doubts about his commitment overall. Is he worth keeping or should we take the �£5million or so on offer and run?

I think it is inevitable that this will happen anyway given we would have to elect people based on manifestos every few years... Gersnet backs AN Other, FF backs Joe Bloggs, Rangers Media backs Someone Else - then onto the fan groups, RSCs and so forth. Not sure how we can avoid that....

We have a month before the Seville game mate. No excuse not to put new ideas into place while limiting the number of tickets we take as a precautionary measure for this game only.

I'll leave this thread on the front page for now but if the discussion could remain in the ongoing one by johnnyk, that would be cool. Good to have this as a separate point of reference though.

Block votes would lead to inevitable conflict but, there's a chance of that under OMOV anyway...

Numbers present will give us an idea of interest to a degree. VIPs present will have better ideas on how to progress. Both of these factors may flush out the people with cash to help create further debate and action. I suspect this is what the RST are hoping as opposed to what DE is saying in the press about already being in negotiations with such people.

Like I say, there is some amount of kite-flying going on. We can't tell how serious they are until after Saturday.

Joint Fan-Group Press Release

I agree with MF in that if we have a member's system then we may not strictly require fans on the board per se. I'd rather these important places went to people with key abilities whom the members can still vote out if required on a reasonably regular basis. Take away the aspect of Copland Joe competing with Govan William for a place on the board, then you take away some of the division we've seen in recent years.

The real question is just how many kites are the Trust flying just now...? I guess that may be answered on Saturday as they're certainly getting some much needed publicity and debate from the issue.

Welcome to Gersnet, miniblue! Obviously you highlight more important challenges facing such schemes. As such, can we really get our act together in time to get something concrete in place either on its own merits or to accompany/complement another bid? Is there are structure already in place that could be used quickly and effectively and how best do we reach the ordinary Copland Joe who isn't online or perhaps doesn't trust the online based groups who claim to represent fans?

UCB: As far as I'm concerned, ensuring supporters groups are retained is an essential part of the process. However, this should also be seen as an opportunity to improve/refine them to help remove the perception of 'in-fighting' or distrust that prevails amongst many online fans. Whilst that notion may well be exaggerated David Edgar has alluded to how important the internet is in terms of putting fan ownership in place. As such, one would ignore the politics (petty or otherwise) of that world at their peril. In my view, ensuring the success of such a scheme, credibility is everything. Thus, while the fan groups may say they are united (and I'd agree on the face of it they are), the deeper truth is not so straightforward. Obstacles remain in that regard but those in itself should not be a reason to not press ahead with change.

Raspberry > Blackberry so applies here I think.

Just don't click any links in this thread and you'll be fine MF...

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I don't travel abroad so I'm not aware of what procedures do and don't happen. However, I've never heard of fan reps being available in situ during a game (or elsewhere) so am surprised this already happens. I was in Manchester though and didn't see any of the above. Obviously, if this does already happen, the scale needs to be extended/refined as it doesn't work very well. Rangers should demand their stewards are present right through the away trip. UEFA reps are also available so we should ensure they're present at turnstiles etc. More fans should be involved so people feel they can trust folk to raise issues. Like I say, it is up to us (and Rangers) to place pressure on the authorities to help us instead of blaming us. To answer your question (I ticked the Thomas Cook option), as I feel fans are entitled to go but we need to place more restrictions on how we facilitate their travel.

Definitely some fair points there MF. However, these same people, like us unhappy with little or no control of their investment, may also see this as an opportunity so caution must be taken. All the more reason for OMOV of course. Anyone fancy writing an article on all of this...?

Now on main site and Newsnow... http://www.gersnetonline.co.uk/2010/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=147:

Some excellent points made which I think cover my own opinions fairly accurately... Unfortunately the one staple for me - one man, one vote - is perhaps the biggest hurdle to achieve given high net worth fans will want more say for their 5/6/7 figure sum investments than you or I with our 3/4 figures. I'm not altogether sure how to find common ground there. To be positive, I obviously think the Rangers fans can own and run our club successfully. I also think we do have the talent amongst us to find an appropriate method to do that. However, those that suggest having the club help us are also right. Without their involvement, any scheme (no matter who runs it) lacks credibility amongst those that won't get involved unless they know who they're dealing with. For example, rightly or wrongly, too many supporters retain a distrust of the RST while the Assembly/Association lack the public profile that the Trust does have. As such, what I'd be looking to do here is put together some sort of PR friendly group to firstly gauge interest then try and realise some funds. I know this has been explored in recent years but perhaps the timing wasn't right then and is now. All the better if well-kent figures can get involved (and invest). I'm thinking fans in the members' lounge, ex-players, media personalities, former directors and even current club staff. Do that and you may attract the attention and imagination of the apathetic majority. Because these are the people that are important to the success of any scheme even if, conversely, they may be the least interested/active in the 'political' side of the machine. Of course many questions still remain: 1. Is Dave King still interested? We still need money men to back the scheme if we're talking �£30-50million is required to buy and run the club until next summer. 2. What part does Lloyds play? Can they be persuaded to reduce their price? 3. Just how much finance can we achieve? Enough to buy the club and stay afloat or enough to buy the club and retain success? 4. Can a scheme and ownership be in place before January? What happens if it isn't and we have to sell players? How will that affect fan interest? Lots of questions and challenges to overcome then. There is a gap in the market for a new genuine leader of our club and its incredibly loyal fans. Can that gap be filled and by whom?

I don't think this is a big deal -even if we all know the BBC are hardly impartial nowadays. If his football supporting leanings were important to the crime/story then fair enough but I don't think they were, were they?

Absolutely no way should we refuse tickets. Doing that suggests we have no idea how to fix the problem we have while laying the blame solely at our support. In actual fact there are various ways in which we can do this - some included above, some not. The club need to work with individual fans like yourself, fan groups, the police, the foreign office and opposition clubs to determine possible issues and resolve them before we travel. I didn't want to bore people with individual suggestions but since you ask here is my tuppence worth. There is no reason this can't be organised before the Seville match next month. I believe Rangers FC send advance parties of their own security staff to such venues. Why does it take until after games before the obvious failures in the facilities are highlighted? This should be done beforehand and, if necessary, restrictions placed upon how many tickets we accept. RSC and travel club members should have representatives put in place on this advance party and these people should form part of the security team at the game. During the match period itself, the club also have to be proactive. They must send their own security staff to travel with the away supporters to quickly identify possible issues in situ. Communication is key in that regard. I'm not saying some fans need to be arrested or split up from others but communicated with early to let them know the problems that may arise. If they ignore that advice, be it on their own head. At the ground, further staff need to be present to ensure the safe entrance of fans into the stadium while also being available in the aisles for questions/concerns during the game. High vis jackets can be used of a differing colour to stewards. These people can be first point of contacts in the event of issues that arise. I'm sure various fans who regularly travel wouldn't mind volunteering for such a task on a rotation basis. Similarly, these people can give out info from the club/security/UEFA if/when required. A two-way system of information gathering and communication is vital. The same methods can be used for ensuring the supporters leave the stadium and country in an orderly fashion. After match meetings can then be organised in Scotland to find out what worked well and what didn't before reports are sent to everyone in the travel club and every RSC. While not perfect, I suggest all the above can be done easily enough if the club and supporters really want to fix this problem. Dialogue is needed, respect given and official help offered.

Anyone can go as long as they pay their fiver... Babysitting today so not been online properly but will work my way through some of these very interesting posts tomorrow.

An excellent post which sums up the situation perfectly. One can't be outraged one minute then amused the next. Not at work today so will post this on the main site tomorrow.

We should be so lucky...