calscot 0 Posted January 4, 2011 Share Posted January 4, 2011 piss poor in europe, bottled a final Have you ever heard of an oxymoron? Do you ever make sense? I think we should just leave the hens to enjoy their pecking party... The anger is strong in them. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ascender 352 Posted January 4, 2011 Share Posted January 4, 2011 I'm not quite sure where this thread is going tbh. I'm also not sure what supporters expected when WS came back, but after steadying the ship, he's made us more successful and delivered more trophies than I could have imagined given the down-sizing that's been going on. On the park, very little has changed in the way we've been playing over the last 6 years or so. We were spoiled during the 9IAR era because of the quality of Scottish players and some of the imports we signed during that time. Since his return, I think Smith has managed to get that sense of team spirit back, but the facts are he's working with less talented players. He can no longer afford or attract more talent from Europe to supplement the homegrown lads. And that translates directly on to the pitch where the standard of football suffers. As a result, we're not beating other teams in the SPL with the comfort we used to 10+ years ago. The gap between us and them has closed over the last while and particularly since the bottom fell out of the transfer market and the massive amount of foreign players in each team has dropped, with younger Scots again coming to the fore. On one hand, I genuinely believe that WS has exceeded expectations with what's been at his disposal. But at the same time, I recognise that from a layman's point of view, he has made some baffling decisions during his tenure, many of which he's exhibited in the past and which have been highlighted in this thread. Should these be excused or forgotten about because he's delivered trophies? Would people prefer we played more attractive & attacking football if it meant we didn't win as many trophies? Or should we be expecting to have it all at least in Scotland where we still outspend all clubs bar one in terms of fees and wages on players? With the state of Scottish football both in terms of the product and the finance in the game, I don't know where we go from here. The only thing I can think of which makes sense going forward is to invest in a global scouting network, the fruits of which are then given a chance to prove themselves on a regular basis in the SPL. We then look to sell these players on when they mature in order to keep regular money coming back in to the club to supplement the normal income and provide some sort of transfer kitty for the manager. Any big change takes time though and the manager of either Glasgow club simply doesn't have time as finishing second in the SPL is considered to be failure. If someone came in and tried to change things from the ground up as PLG allegedly did, just how long would the majority of fans give him to do so if things weren't going well on the pitch? Would they accept finishing second for a few years for example? I think our expectations need to be set at a realistic level according to the long term plans of whoever comes in. Of course, you'd hope that if we get a new owner, there can be balance found where there's some money available for new players to come in without putting us at the mercy of the banks. So long as that's done as part of a viable business plan based on non-CL football then that's the priority imo. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
craig 5,195 Posted January 4, 2011 Share Posted January 4, 2011 I never understand the 'players are to blame angle'. Who is in charge of the players? Who signed many of them? If a country loses a war do you blame the troops? No you blame the man in charge. And who steps out on the pitch ? 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazza_8 233 Posted January 4, 2011 Share Posted January 4, 2011 piss poor in europe, bottled a final Surely reaching a european final is an achievement in itself? 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
craig 5,195 Posted January 4, 2011 Share Posted January 4, 2011 Surely reaching a european final is an achievement in itself? Not good enough for some. And others will say that the players did it, whilst still suggesting that the manager gets the blame for negative results and performances. The reality is that the players and management go hand in hand, one doesnt operate without the other. WS, the management team and his players have won back to back titles whilst spending no money during that period and even this season have only lost two games in the SPL, one to our fiercest rivals and the other to a team which has ALWAYS been a struggle for us. We sit 4 points behind with 2 games in hand and if we win those we obviously go back to the top of the table. And you also see some going on about how Celtic arent even at full strength... well neither are we. We didnt have our best player in the line up due to injury, we had a 4 million quid player out injured, a US international out injured who could complement the team too. It isnt just Celtic who were under-strength at the weekend. And then, perhaps, it could also have been just a bad day at the office. But some wont listen to that, it HAS to be the fault of WS..... because he is an easy target. The sad thing is that there will be no doubts that WS is hurting every bit as bad as every single one of us over that defeat. As for the "no tactics" philosophy..... how do you suppose we reached the UEFA final in 2008 with a team and squad which was recognised as being inferior to every team we met in the KO stages ?? Surely tactics played a massive part in "punching above our weight" ?? 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazza_8 233 Posted January 4, 2011 Share Posted January 4, 2011 The way we played to reach the UEFA Cup Final was boring and dull but it worked. We are a small fish in a big pond these days but some people refuse to accept this. We beat teams who were technically better than us in 2008 like Fiorentina and Werder Bremen but being the better team doesn't mean you deserve to win. I'll say it again, I'm by no means WS biggest fan but he and the players deserve huge amount of credit for that run. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totti 0 Posted January 4, 2011 Author Share Posted January 4, 2011 The way we played to reach the UEFA Cup Final was boring and dull but it worked. We are a small fish in a big pond these days but some people refuse to accept this. We beat teams who were technically better than us in 2008 like Fiorentina and Werder Bremen but being the better team doesn't mean you deserve to win. I'll say it again, I'm by no means WS biggest fan but he and the players deserve huge amount of credit for that run. Getting to the final was great but I've never seen a side get to a cup final and make such little attempt to win it. There was no away goal to save Walter here - it was embarrassing and baffling. If I can recall correctly we had something like 2 or 3 shots on goal... 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gazza_8 233 Posted January 4, 2011 Share Posted January 4, 2011 Getting to the final was great but I've never seen a side get to a cup final and make such little attempt to win it. There was no away goal to save Walter here - it was embarrassing and baffling. If I can recall correctly we had something like 2 or 3 shots on goal... So rather than compliment Walter and the squad by playing 4 or 5 rounds of 2 legged games and getting to the final you'll sit and moan about the final where we were outplayed by the better team? Shit happens. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
maineflyer 0 Posted January 4, 2011 Share Posted January 4, 2011 (edited) What a fucking waste of time, pouring over what happened two years ago. I'd worry more about this year and what lies beyond. This year means Walter Smith whatever anyone thinks of him. Beyond that, well who knows. However, far more important to the fortunes of the club than Walter Smith is the unbelievably negligent performance of our once-lauded owner, the bastard David Murray. Or has everyone forgotten that any hope lies in changing the ownership of the club. Edited January 4, 2011 by maineflyer 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totti 0 Posted January 4, 2011 Author Share Posted January 4, 2011 So rather than compliment Walter and the squad by playing 4 or 5 rounds of 2 legged games and getting to the final you'll sit and moan about the final where we were outplayed by the better team? Shit happens. I just said what he did was 'great'. That doesn't excuse what followed. You get nothing for finishing second place. Was a real chance to really make a name of ourselves but history only remembers the victors I'd rather we 'had a go' and got gubbed than pack the defence and try to lose by a respectable margin. We were never going to stop a team as creative as Zenit from opening us up either way 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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