[FT] Partick Thistle 2 - 2 Rangers (Morelos 19; Dorrans 77)

[der Berliner 3,286]

You are struggling badly to be clever now

 

Looks like you don't do sarcasm that often? Anyway, a nice Monday to you too.

[union 0]

Looks like you don't do sarcasm that often? Anyway, a nice Monday to you too.

No probs m8 funny old world if we all agreed,you have a good day too !

[Gonzo79 13,760]

So there we are. Try to talk some reason and objectivity into results and you're flinging excuses about, backed Llambias et al and whatnot. Fine climate for a "debate" when people waltz over it with "we are Rangers", "Rangers always look for top spot", "players not good enough", and "manager is not up to it".

 

Perhaps not everyone will get the analogy, but what I read on here is akin to the RAF facing up to the Luftwaffe at the beginning of the Battle of Britain, and when a handful of Gladiators ...

 

 

... with willing pilots face up against France-Battle-hardened BF 109Es ...

 

 

... and get mauled, the squadron leader accuses them of not being up to it, being cowards and whatnot. Makes as much sense as this current debate on defeats to the Scum and the reasons for it and some results thereafter. Some will not be convinced by players and gaffer up until they deliver silverware in this or that form, and some handsome wins against the Scum, no matter how unreasonable this may be.

 

Thank heavens that the next game is up tomorrow!

 

It's that kind of reasoning that will see us as also-rans for the forseeable future.

Edited September 18, 2017 by Gonzo79

[JohnMc 2,488]

Do you have to try to be the worst comedian on the forums, or does that just come naturally? Some of what you write in your articles and reviews is interesting, but most of what you write as posts on the forums is just trolling, or at the very least argumentative for the sake of it.

 

We have a long way to go before we get back to where we belong at the top of Scottish football. Most people on here are sensible enough to realise that, so I can only assume these same people enjoy the argumentative stances they take. Is that helpful? Not for me, but it may be for some others. If you, union, and some others really believe (and post) that we should be changing managers (and the board) each time Celtic beat us, or if we get knocked out of Europe by a 'small' team, or if we draw with Thistle again, I'm not sure I can deal with this for the next few years.

 

It's said that either your environment becomes a product of you, or you become a product of your environment. Were you guys always this negative, or was it developed through the last few years? I'm trying to work out how likely I am to become infected.

 

"Argumentative for the sake of it"

 

See I've analysed and posted about Pedro's record before joining Rangers, I've watched his matches in charge, both this season and last, I've seen how his sides react to set-backs and changes during matches and I've looked at his man-management of players he's inherited and bought and I've looked at the results and performances of his Rangers sides. I find him lacking in every single one, I can't see what strengths he has and what he's bringing to the club. I'm sorry Gaffer but it isn't trolling and it certainly isn't being argumentative for the sake of it to point these out. You have faith in Pedro, I don't. That's not because I have a beef with you or Rab or dB or any of the posters who have faith that Pedro will come good, I don't, I just think you are wrong on this particular point. I mean it's an important point and one fundamental to the well being of our club but it's not personal.

 

As I've got older I've become more sceptical of 'faith' without some evidence to back it up. I'm struggling to see any evidence that Pedro is the man to rebuild our side into Champions again, this year or next.

 

For the record, because you don't know me, PC is the first Rangers manager I've ever publicly called for to be dismissed. My online posting record is, I imagine, available for all to read. I backed Ally when almost everyone had turned on him, I backed Warburton up to the point he was dismissed, I even backed PLG when many had turned on him, including the players. I don't publicly slate Rangers managers for the sake of it or because I'm getting my kicks out of trolling you. I only do it when I absolutely believe we've made a mistake.

 

I don't have faith, I see very few signs that we're any better than last season, we're weak physically and mentally, we lack skill, we've very little depth, we seem to have given up on blooding and playing young players and we're tactically being out-thought on too many occasions. That's my view based on what I see with my own eyes.

 

It's not trolling to point out the absurdity of some of the excuses people make for our defeats. It's not trolling to question why we should have faith when there is literally no evidence to back it up.

 

We need a manager who can build a side that is greater than the sum of its parts. Who can build a side that can grind out results, that can sustain a challenge all season probably not playing the most attractive or expansive football but one that'll win. At no point in his past has Pedro managed a side that did that and nothing I've seen from his time at Rangers so far suggests he can do that with us. The harsh reality is Celtic have better players, a better squad and more money to strengthen it than we do. We can't go toe-to-toe with them so we need to find a different way to win. That's just my view and it's not trolling to express it.

 

No manager can be expected to win the league without his own players, apparently. Except that's what Alex McLeish did when he joined us, he won the league in his first full season in charge and no one his heralding him as some sort of managerial genius. When Walter Smith returned to Rangers the following season we won the the League Cup, the Scottish Cup and reached the UEFA Cup Final, almost certainly costing us the league in the process.

 

I'm not requesting either of those two back, I'm pointing out that expecting more from a Rangers manager in a short space of time is not unreasonable or without precedent.

 

I hope Pedro proves me wrong, I hope he makes me eat my words. But it's not trolling to fail to see whatever it is you see in him.

[pete 2,499]

So there we are. Try to talk some reason and objectivity into results and you're flinging excuses about, backed Llambias et al and whatnot. Fine climate for a "debate" when people waltz over it with "we are Rangers", "Rangers always look for top spot", "players not good enough", and "manager is not up to it".

 

Perhaps not everyone will get the analogy, but what I read on here is akin to the RAF facing up to the Luftwaffe at the beginning of the Battle of Britain, and when a handful of Gladiators ...

 

 

... with willing pilots face up against France-Battle-hardened BF 109Es ...

 

 

... and get mauled, the squadron leader accuses them of not being up to it, being cowards and whatnot. Makes as much sense as this current debate on defeats to the Scum and the reasons for it and some results thereafter. Some will not be convinced by players and gaffer up until they deliver silverware in this or that form, and some handsome wins against the Scum, no matter how unreasonable this may be.

 

Thank heavens that the next game is up tomorrow!

 

You forget one thing about the Battle of Britain. The British had far less planes but they had the new spitfire which was far superior to anything the Germans had. The pilots actually added one piece of equipment themselves. The rear view mirror of cars so they could see behind them. Simple and true.

Rangers do not have superior equipment than Celtic unfortunately but against them that does not always count so I am pretty confident we can win if the defence does not give away stupid goals.

[Gonzo79 13,760]

There has been little evidence that our defence won't give away stupid goals. Every team who has attacked us has scored. Thistle got two and Hibs got three - and the scum have far better forwards than either of these two teams.

 

I'd be surprised if we keep them down to 3.

Edited September 18, 2017 by Gonzo79

[Walterbear 557]

If someone can point out where we are going to get the £3m compensation to pay off PC and his backroom staff and the £10m+ needed to get some kind of parity with Celtic in terms of players then please tell us. We will have to offload and rebuild the team and management staff again in one fell swoop if this is to be solved quickly. We are still surviving on loans from wealthy supporters and unless someone knows where the magic money tree is then we will have to continue on the current path and give the club our support.

 

It's all very well to say things should be better but everyone knows this is not a short term fix after the ravaging of the club and everyone knows there's very little cash.

 

For all the criticisms (and I'm as frustrated as anyone when I see carbon copy mistakes leading to goals or missed chances) one thing PC has done is virtually turn over the playing staff and he is trying to take the club in a way that is perceived to be modern football. Can't make an omelette eithout breaking some eggs and OC has the right to boot out players who will not follow his ideas. I thought there was a general view from most he needed the first quarter at least and up to the new year so I don't get this reaction right now.

 

The bigger problem is we don't have options and choices and that is still an off the field problem and heavily linked to our current inability to float or sell the club.

 

When we solve that problem folk can consider options and choices but there isn't a manager out there who can overnight get us challenging Celtic with the current financial disparity. The only way is to follow a strategy and football ethos that should work once we learn how to play it throughout our club and gradually fill the first team gaps from the market or from youngsters coming through the ranks. This is work in progress and it's another year at least. We haven't won a major cup for years so frankly I'd take the league cup as our first objective above the scvm. Get that name Rangers FC on another senior trophy. Seriously you'd think OC had taken us from years of success to nothing. We've had years of lower league football and ZERO senior trophies. That's where we are.

Edited September 18, 2017 by Walterbear

[craig 5,199]

They certainly did, some can spot a fraud from day one.

 

Eh ? Not too early to say we are dropping points in that Championship season ?

 

You do realize the length of an unbeaten run we went on in that season. You are just making things up now to try to prove you know best.

 

So at what point in that Championship season did you start to say we were dropping too many silly points ?

[union 0]

You’ve lost me,said from day one 4th choice warburton was a fraud as NF are finding out ?

[craig 5,199]

Jesus wept.

 

Indeed. The problem with some is that their inherent dislike of certain individuals, be that Pedro, King or Park, has them making statements that are based on emotion rather than common sense.

 

Given that prior to King we had Green, Ahmad et al - and given we didn't have many looking to "save us" - just who would the NEW knight in shining armour be - because I don't see many clamouring for the role.

 

We as fans are our own worst enemy at times.

 

It saddens me how we have gone from being a Club who looks at things with a long term perspective to this millennial age "instant gratification". No longer can a Rangers manager be given time in the manager's chair, he MUST be successful immediately - and there is absolutely ZERO allowance given for how disadvantaged we are financially..... Rodgers can say we spent 8 million this pre-season so it shows we are looking to compete for the title because we have spent more than them, but that's nonsense. They spent 4.5 million on one player, and last season they spent over 3 million on Sinclair alone - so since Rodgers came in Celtic have spent as much on TWO PLAYERS as we have on an entire squad. And yet we believe we should be more than a match for them.

 

The sad reality is, right now, they are streets ahead of us financially - and whilst we CAN get a result against them the expectation really, objectively, should be that we wont. I wouldn't expect a hammering but we shouldn't be expecting a result against them. Some may call that being "un-Rangers like" but I prefer to call it realism or pragmatism.

 

They are miles ahead of us, for obvious reasons.

 

I simply can't believe that some are saying there has been no improvement this season. Some people must watch games with their eyes shut. More solid in midfield, defensively stronger (Friday night aside we have looked more solid at the back), creating more chances (mostly thanks to Candeias) and we finally have someone who knows where the back of the net is in Morelos. I just don't understand how people can't see we have improved - I didn't think it was even a debatable question.