Union Bears statement

[MacK1950 2,231]

1 hour ago, Barebear said:

The club should engage directly with the UB. Invite them in for a big doo in a marquee on the pitch, let them walk the track from the tunnel after bringing them through the main front doors. Give them special treatment for a day and mix with them, bring a few players in to the event, then have a long Q&A session to talk through the issues. Show the UB they are valued and work closely to get the best out of them whilst getting the songbook message over. 

 

That at one event would go a long way to keeping things going. The UB are essential to the modern match day experience now and should be encouraged to continue. 

Get your idea but there is another way get them to go on the Founders Trail tour and if they cannot refrain from the singing after that then there is no hope for them.

[forlanssister 3,050]

2 hours ago, Barebear said:

The club should engage directly with the UB. Invite them in for a big doo in a marquee on the pitch, let them walk the track from the tunnel after bringing them through the main front doors. Give them special treatment for a day and mix with them, bring a few players in to the event, then have a long Q&A session to talk through the issues. Show the UB they are valued and work closely to get the best out of them whilst getting the songbook message over. 

 

That at one event would go a long way to keeping things going. The UB are essential to the modern match day experience now and should be encouraged to continue. 

How about the Board just fellate them in the centre circle before the kick off ?

[ranger_syntax 3,765]

On 01/03/2019 at 08:36, JohnMc said:

Do councillors ever change? Do council priorities ever change? 

 

Does policing ever change? Do police treat football supporters the same as other parts of society? 

 

As for Rangers, well I hope not and have no reason to suspect they are. However, I wouldn't have trusted some of the people who've 'controlled' us in the recent past and none of us know what the future holds. 

 

I spent my formative days watching football from terraces. I had a season ticket for the Enclosure whilst it was still terraced, I get the nostalgia trip some have for it but it doesn't change the fact that seated stadiums are safer than terraces. The day of the Hillsborough disaster I was at Parkhead watching Rangers in a cup match. We were in the 'Jungle' as it was called, an infamous terrace frequented by Celtic's hardcore support. It was my first visit to that end of the ground. The place was a death trap, how nobody died accessing or leaving that place I'll never know. That day, when 96 football supporter's were crushed to death because the police viewed them as sub-human, and because the people whose job it was to ensure safety were, at best incompetent, at worst negligent, I saw Rangers supporters literally punch each other to try and escape a crush leaving Parkhead. The worst of it RS is it wasn't a big surprise, I'd seen that before and I saw it again after. At Brockville I was in a crush that saw people hospitalised, I've no proof but I'm fairly sure turnstyle operators were allowing more people in than they should have, people can be greedy without thinking of the possible consequences. I was in a crush at East End Park at half time where a woman broke her leg. I can still hear the snap sound, everyone within 20 feet of her heard it, followed by her cry of pain. Ambulance staff couldn't reach her and she ended up being passed down over supporter's heads. I saw crushes at Easter Road on one of our very first matches on the 90s, we greeted the new decade with a return to the 1940s complete with police who didn't even try and hide their contempt for us far less help. 

 

The irony is once the danger passed, you laughed about it, shrugged it off, cursed the shithole ground you were at and walked back to the bus or train, adrenaline and camaraderie doing their jobs on your mindset. 

 

Yip, I know, it's different now. It couldn't happen today, things have changed, standards are higher, people are different. Well I don't buy it. Football fans, ours in particular, are still viewed as sub-human by some people, people in positions of power too. 

The thing I always keep in mind is there were 25 people killed at Ibrox when a stand collapsed in 1902. We changed the ground after that, at great expense to the club both on and off the park. Yet, despite that it happened again, and more people died. I'm fairly certain those in charge said this can never happen again after that incident, I'm sure they meant it too. I'm not inclined to find out if it could happen. 

Your responses to the questions about the council, police and Rangers can all apply to the status quo.

 

As for your anecdotes I'm sad to say that they are all irrelevant to the point of substance.  I'll remind you that you waded in to argue against safe standing.  None of the points you make, nor the anecdotes you share, are about safe standing.

[JohnMc 2,468]

9 hours ago, ranger_syntax said:

Your responses to the questions about the council, police and Rangers can all apply to the status quo.

 

As for your anecdotes I'm sad to say that they are all irrelevant to the point of substance.  I'll remind you that you waded in to argue against safe standing.  None of the points you make, nor the anecdotes you share, are about safe standing.

There was a nuclear reactor in England called Windscale, there was a fire there in the late 1950s causing a level 5 radioactive leak into the atmosphere. It was a big scandal, not only around the danger to health but also accusations of Government cover up and ongoing concerns around nuclear power. You might not have heard of Windscale because when the nuclear industry did research into public opinion some 20 odd years later they discovered many people distrusted it and whenever they heard the name Windscale they immediately associated it with nuclear leaks and safety concerns. The nuclear industry in the UK did what all clever businesses do when faced with this issue, they changed Windscale's name. So instead of Windscale today we say Sellafield. It's the same place with the same history but for anyone under the age of 35 the name Windscale means very little and Sellafield is a place where schools go on trips. Changing the name is a great marketing trick, it's surprising how many people  accept something is different just because the name is. 

 

You call it 'safe standing' if you want, it's terracing, pure and simple, that's what it is whatever you choose to call it today. It's a tiered standing area with concrete steps and crush barriers, that's a terrace RS, same as it ever was. I don't think terraces are intrinsically dangerous, but people can be, and as long as people are involved in their upkeep, policing and management it's a hard no from me. 

[DMAA 3,603]

1 hour ago, JohnMc said:

You call it 'safe standing' if you want, it's terracing, pure and simple, that's what it is whatever you choose to call it today.

John, I'm too young to comment on terracing but having a look on google images I have to say the two do look very different. Terracing looks dangerous, "safe standing" looks far more like what we already have than terracing. Everyone has their own assigned seat (whether they use it or not), and every row is separated by metal barriers. I'm not overly fussed by the issue but I honestly don't see a safety problem, I think practical implementation in the stadium is a bigger deal and keeping any "hooligan culture" in check.

[Bill 13,717]

I keep asking myself, what is it that safe standing gives you that seating doesn’t?  Should we have safe-standing in cinemas and theatres? If it’s the ability to jump up and down people want, go to a gym.

[ranger_syntax 3,765]

1 hour ago, JohnMc said:

There was a nuclear reactor in England called Windscale, there was a fire there in the late 1950s causing a level 5 radioactive leak into the atmosphere. It was a big scandal, not only around the danger to health but also accusations of Government cover up and ongoing concerns around nuclear power. You might not have heard of Windscale because when the nuclear industry did research into public opinion some 20 odd years later they discovered many people distrusted it and whenever they heard the name Windscale they immediately associated it with nuclear leaks and safety concerns. The nuclear industry in the UK did what all clever businesses do when faced with this issue, they changed Windscale's name. So instead of Windscale today we say Sellafield. It's the same place with the same history but for anyone under the age of 35 the name Windscale means very little and Sellafield is a place where schools go on trips. Changing the name is a great marketing trick, it's surprising how many people  accept something is different just because the name is. 

 

You call it 'safe standing' if you want, it's terracing, pure and simple, that's what it is whatever you choose to call it today. It's a tiered standing area with concrete steps and crush barriers, that's a terrace RS, same as it ever was. I don't think terraces are intrinsically dangerous, but people can be, and as long as people are involved in their upkeep, policing and management it's a hard no from me. 

Why so many key presses if you don't want to engage with the point of substance?

[JohnMc 2,468]

2 hours ago, ranger_syntax said:

Why so many key presses if you don't want to engage with the point of substance?

Are you confusing engaging with agreeing? 

[JohnMc 2,468]

2 hours ago, DMAA said:

John, I'm too young to comment on terracing but having a look on google images I have to say the two do look very different. Terracing looks dangerous, "safe standing" looks far more like what we already have than terracing. Everyone has their own assigned seat (whether they use it or not), and every row is separated by metal barriers. I'm not overly fussed by the issue but I honestly don't see a safety problem, I think practical implementation in the stadium is a bigger deal and keeping any "hooligan culture" in check.

As I said above it's all safe until you cram too many people into it or you don't maintain it correctly. My experiences have led me to mistrust organisations charged with keeping football supporters safe. 

[BEARGER 1,829]

Did the UB keep quiet yesterday ?