match thread (image) [FT] Legia 0 - 0 Rangers

[pete 2,499]

4 hours ago, Frankie said:

Are you seriously suggesting players can't be man of the match if they make a mistake during a game?

 

Does that mean Defoe or Morelos can't be man of the match if they score a hat-trick but miss a sitter?  Or Jack should be ashamed of himself for misplacing one pass in fifty?  Perhaps Katic is a bombscare because he needlessly dived into a tackle and McGregor had to save his arse last night?  Or maybe all these players have been very good lately but are imperfect?

 

People voted Goldson for Man of the Match in a couple of games recently because he's been very solid at the back, has passed the ball very well and even scored a vital winner in the Killie game.  Has he made a few mistakes in games as well?  Absolutely yes and every single person on here has also acknowledged that.  He made two last night - one in the first half when he failed to intercept a cross when he looked favourite to do so and then again in the second half when he tried to be clever on the touch-line instead of clearing his lines.  However, that doesn't mean he didn't have a decent game generally.

 

It's really not difficult to approach player analysis objectively.  You should try it instead of making embarrassing claims that you just can't back up.

I said Goldson makes at least one big mistake per game. You just gave me two for last night. I don't see how I can't back that up when you just did. I don't feel embarrassed in the least to be honest. I will say it another way. Goldson can be brilliant at times but also a bombscare at other times. Maybe that paints a more realistic picture.

[Gonzo79 13,584]

Goldson is a good, solid defender at the level(s) we're playing at.  The main drawback to his game is his (lack of) pace.

 

The defence really isn't an area we should be debating at such length because our back line is quite dependable, considering the sums we paid for them.

 

Our inability to break teams down should be the real area of focus.

[Frankie 8,146]

1 hour ago, pete said:

I said Goldson makes at least one big mistake per game. You just gave me two for last night. I don't see how I can't back that up when you just did. I don't feel embarrassed in the least to be honest. I will say it another way. Goldson can be brilliant at times but also a bombscare at other times. Maybe that paints a more realistic picture.

I think you are rather confused.  Allow me to help...

 

No-one is saying Goldson doesn't make mistakes - quite the contrary.  What people are saying is that he is capable of mistakes but no more so than anyone else in the team, including Katic.  However, like most of that team, Goldson's general form has also been pretty good.  As such, it becomes tedious when you single him out continually.

 

The daft claims you also can't back up are thus:

 

1.  People think Goldson is a God and above criticism.  Not one person thinks that.  That's why even his backers are happy to discuss his faults.

2.  Goldson makes at least one big mistake a game.  No he doesn't and certainly makes no more mistakes than anyone else.

3.  There are a lot of people who agree with you on that.  Not on this forum, there aren't.  Not going by this thread.

4.  People are picking on Katic.  Also, incorrect.  Katic like every player, receives some constructive criticism and I've not seen anyone disrespect him like you've been doing with Goldson.  

5.  Gerrard made a big mistake dropping Katic for Worrall.  Unproven at best for the clear reasons listed earlier.

6.  You started slagging off Goldson because others have an agenda against Katic.  No, that's also untrue as more than a few people have noticed your obsession on this over the last couple of months.  

7.  Players can't be MotM if they make a mistake during a game.  Hmmm...

 

If I had got as much wrong in just one thread, I'd certainly be embarrassed.  But if you can't see you're looking rather silly by now then I'm probably wasting my time with this post too.

 

In any case I think we've exhausted this topic and I'm sure most people are bored by the subject.  

[ranger_syntax 3,762]

The only person being picked on is Pete.

 

But he did blaspheme so quite justified.

[pete 2,499]

15 minutes ago, Frankie said:

I think you are rather confused.  Allow me to help...

 

No-one is saying Goldson doesn't make mistakes - quite the contrary.  What people are saying is that he is capable of mistakes but no more so than anyone else in the team, including Katic.  However, like most of that team, Goldson's general form has also been pretty good.  As such, it becomes tedious when you single him out continually.

 

The daft claims you also can't back up are thus:

 

1.  People think Goldson is a God and above criticism.  Not one person thinks that.  That's why even his backers are happy to discuss his faults.

2.  Goldson makes at least one big mistake a game.  No he doesn't and certainly makes no more mistakes than anyone else.

3.  There are a lot of people who agree with you on that.  Not on this forum, there aren't.  Not going by this thread.

4.  People are picking on Katic.  Also, incorrect.  Katic like every player, receives some constructive criticism and I've not seen anyone disrespect him like you've been doing with Goldson.  

5.  Gerrard made a big mistake dropping Katic for Worrall.  Unproven at best for the clear reasons listed earlier.

6.  You started slagging off Goldson because others have an agenda against Katic.  No, that's also untrue as more than a few people have noticed your obsession on this over the last couple of months.  

7.  Players can't be MotM if they make a mistake during a game.  Hmmm...

 

If I had got as much wrong in just one thread, I'd certainly be embarrassed.  But if you can't see you're looking rather silly by now then I'm probably wasting my time with this post too.

 

In any case I think we've exhausted this topic and I'm sure most people are bored by the subject.  

Sorry Frankie I have to answer that and then I am finished.

1) I mentioned Goldson made a mistake yesterday and have had a full thread of people defending him and saying I am not being fair. You even admitted he made 2 mistakes. I am not talking about a bad pass I am talking about switching off which for a defender is deadly.

2) I have been pointing  out his mistakes which seemingly makes me silly. And yes it is almost every game.

3) There are certainly more people who you have also spoken to who have not posted on this thread.

4) A full thread last week that Katic had run away from his man where I proved and most agreed he had to leave his man to try and stop the attack. I think it was DMAA who said something like "thankfully we can put Katic argument to bed and replace him with Helander." I even proved that Goldson was the biggest perpetrator of a mistake

5) Gerrard made a mistake dropping Katic last season. Just my opinion and open to discussion.

6) Hen egg discussion believe me I just didn't make things up about Goldson. From my memory my first criticism of Goldson was against Celtic last season where he just seemed to let a Celtic player drift past him by going to ground.

7) Everyone is open to chose their own MOTM. I won't pick a player who has been guilty of lazy play but that is possibly a me thing.

 

I certainly don't don't feel silly or embarrassed and as I said before your opinion does not make you right it is your opinion as mine is mine and does not make me right in other peoples eyes. I can live with your criticism of me.

 

Anyway as you say end of debate.

 

 

[Rousseau 9,360]

Anyone else think Goldson's distribution has been a lot better this season?

 

There was a bit of coverage about him being a 'ball-playing Centre-back' when he signed, and then articles aftwerwards suggesting why this wasn't quite accurate -- he just didn't complete enough passes to be deemed as such. 

 

He could play a cross-field ball, which could be impressive, but that wasn't always accurate, and that was the only ball he'd play. 

 

This season, though, I've seen him play some decent straight balls into our wide forwards with a decent success rate; they're dangerous balls, as well. 

[Bill 13,717]

I just think this whole debate about Goldson/Katic is utterly pointless and in most cases based on hollow arguments. This is how scapegoats are made and we know how fond some of us are of our scapegoats. It's always an unedifying sight when someone tries to justify their personal preferences by basing them on "evidence" that simply doesn't exist. Sometimes you can try too hard.

[DMAA 3,603]

11 hours ago, pete said:

I think it was DMAA who said something like "thankfully we can put Katic argument to bed and replace him with Helander." I even proved that Goldson was the biggest perpetrator of a mistake

You’ve drawn me in. That is a misquote, I basically said I thought it was important to get Helander fit and in the team for Katic after what I saw as a series of errors that had cost goals or good chances despite otherwise good performances. Helander is an experienced player and strong on positioning apparently. There were some good replies to what I said there which were fair enough, I’m just conscious we have a quality £3.5m pound Swedish international who still isn’t fit and challenging. 

 

And you didn’t prove anything I just had to stop replying because we’d both made our case and someone had to drop it. 

[the gunslinger 3,366]

1 hour ago, Rousseau said:

Anyone else think Goldson's distribution has been a lot better this season?

 

There was a bit of coverage about him being a 'ball-playing Centre-back' when he signed, and then articles aftwerwards suggesting why this wasn't quite accurate -- he just didn't complete enough passes to be deemed as such. 

 

He could play a cross-field ball, which could be impressive, but that wasn't always accurate, and that was the only ball he'd play. 

 

This season, though, I've seen him play some decent straight balls into our wide forwards with a decent success rate; they're dangerous balls, as well. 

Yeah definitely including Thursday night. 

[craig 5,195]

4 hours ago, Rousseau said:

Anyone else think Goldson's distribution has been a lot better this season?

 

There was a bit of coverage about him being a 'ball-playing Centre-back' when he signed, and then articles aftwerwards suggesting why this wasn't quite accurate -- he just didn't complete enough passes to be deemed as such. 

 

He could play a cross-field ball, which could be impressive, but that wasn't always accurate, and that was the only ball he'd play. 

 

This season, though, I've seen him play some decent straight balls into our wide forwards with a decent success rate; they're dangerous balls, as well. 

Yeah, the single biggest difference I’ve seen in a Goldson this season is his willingness to make vertical passes into midfield rather than horizontal to his fellow CB.

 

its intentional from the management team IMO.  Vertical passes from your CB cuts out a number of opposition layers with one ball.  It gets us on the front foot quickly.