Gersnet Article The Champions League has moved on; we haven’t

[craig 5,199]

1 minute ago, PoohBear said:

I don't think it's weird to say that you want to see the players expend some energy and show passion. 

McGregor shows passion - but was absolutely abject against Liverpool at Ibrox.  Passion alone means absolutely nothing.  You think the players they come up against can't match the passion, effort, commmitment - and batter us with technique ?

[Gonzo79 13,807]

5 minutes ago, craig said:

Passion alone means absolutely nothing

Maybe a tackle every once in a while.  Or taking one for the team.  Breaking up play.  Sticking with your man.  

 

Stuff like that.  

[craig 5,199]

35 minutes ago, Gonzo79 said:

Maybe a tackle every once in a while.  Or taking one for the team.  Breaking up play.  Sticking with your man.  

 

Stuff like that.  

None of those require passion, they require a footballing brain, something a number of our players lack

[Bill 13,717]

2 hours ago, craig said:

McGregor shows passion - but was absolutely abject against Liverpool at Ibrox.  Passion alone means absolutely nothing.  You think the players they come up against can't match the passion, effort, commmitment - and batter us with technique ?

"Passion" is intangible gobbledegook, it means absolutely bugger all. By and large it's a concept that exists only in the heads of disgruntled fans. We might as well talk about other nebulous drivel such as commitment or caring or that old chestnut "will to win". These are things we all think are hugely important but can't measure or lend an iota of objectivity to. As long as we keep talking crap about this mystical quality "competing", we will never understand what is actually required to compete.

[Bill 13,717]

2 hours ago, Gonzo79 said:

Maybe a tackle every once in a while.  Or taking one for the team.  Breaking up play.  Sticking with your man.  

 

Stuff like that.  

There are clearly two different things being discussed here. One is what consoles fans. The other is what produces outcomes on the park. I think the current buzzword "competing" is definitely the former. 

[weebluedevil 1,179]

8 hours ago, craig said:

McGregor shows passion - but was absolutely abject against Liverpool at Ibrox.  Passion alone means absolutely nothing.  You think the players they come up against can't match the passion, effort, commmitment - and batter us with technique ?

As I said and I'm quoting your post after Ajax away: "I think we ALL could accept getting beat 4-0 by a more than decent Ajax team..... but to do so when they out-worked us should be a no-no. Effort, desire and application have nothing to do with finance...." 

 

is that not what we're talking about when we say compete?  Make your mind up Craig. 

[Gonzo79 13,807]

7 hours ago, craig said:

None of those require passion,

Debatable. If a player has accepted a heavy loss, he's less likely to give it his all or use dirty tricks, I'd say.

 

5 hours ago, Bill said:

There are clearly two different things being discussed here. One is what consoles fans. The other is what produces outcomes on the park. I think the current buzzword "competing" is definitely the former. 

So when you let a player run clear, instead of pulling his shirt (like two Ajax players did to us) or just taking him down, it makes no difference to the outcome?  Interesting way to look at it.

[PoohBear 1,087]

10 hours ago, craig said:

McGregor shows passion - but was absolutely abject against Liverpool at Ibrox.  Passion alone means absolutely nothing.  You think the players they come up against can't match the passion, effort, commmitment - and batter us with technique ?

Sure they can, but if you don't show effort and passion then you may as well not turn up. We know we don't have the skill and technique, we have to best use the available resources we do have to even try to get something from these games. We didn't try.

[craig 5,199]

5 hours ago, weebluedevil said:

As I said and I'm quoting your post after Ajax away: "I think we ALL could accept getting beat 4-0 by a more than decent Ajax team..... but to do so when they out-worked us should be a no-no. Effort, desire and application have nothing to do with finance...." 

 

is that not what we're talking about when we say compete?  Make your mind up Craig. 

I dont think we competed against Ajax, at all.  We should have been able to.  But I dont think the same can be applied for all 6 games in the competition.  Look at all 6 games individually - IMO :

 

Ajax away - didnt compete

Napoli home - competed well until Sands sending off, unlucky

Liverpool away - competed(ish), they had lots of chances but we could have nicked a goal or two at the end

Liverpool home - competed for an hour, quality of subs from Liverpool had a significant impact

Napoli away - I didnt see the game so cant comment

Ajax home - gave away a couple of soft goals, participation already over, easy to see why they wouldnt be as motivated (not excusing it)

 

So it isnt that we didnt compete in any of the games, we did.  But there were also games where we didnt.

 

My observation about the Ajax game holds.  These teams can match ALL of our best qualities and they have far more technical players than us.  Doesnt mean in every game we lacked application and effort, though I contend in some of them we did.

 

We, or at least I, also have the benefit of hindsight - maybe my expectations at that point in time was that we could, should, have been able to match them for physical attributes - the gulf between us and true Champions League teams is vast, moreso than I had anticipated.

[Scott7 5,273]

5 hours ago, Gonzo79 said:

So when you let a player run clear, instead of pulling his shirt (like two Ajax players did to us) or just taking him down, it makes no difference to the outcome?  Interesting way to look at it.

That’s not competing. That’s playing rugby. Send them off.