Gersnet Article The Champions League has moved on; we haven’t

[Sutton_blows_goats 4,371]

10 minutes ago, Gonzo79 said:

It would be easy to think they've beaten Real Madrid home and away, the way some of the press and their fans are carrying on (they lost 8-1 on aggregate). 

 

Makes me glad I'm a Rangers man - thoroughly disappointed with our campaign. 

And we were beaten 9-1 on aggregate by the team RM beat by a whisker in the CL final last year. Funny that eh.

Edited November 3, 2022 by Sutton_blows_goats

[Bill 13,717]

I'm not sure our situation today can be explained away in the proposition the CL has moved on but we haven't.

 

Of course the CL has moved on. Given the cumulative effect of concentrating ever more money in a small group of elite clubs, it would be strange if it hadn't. The fact is we are still recovering from the events of 2012 and are still well away from the end of that process, so assessing Rangers as a European club is as much a matter of our domestic turmoil as it is about our European potential. Winning 55 didn't in any way signal the end of our recovery journey, it was merely a fortunate punctuation mark. If we're going to assess Rangers as a European contender then the soonest I would be doing so is towards the end of this decade.

 

In the meantime, we have still to establish ourselves as a genuine domestic challenger and that has to be our sole immediate ambition, something I think it's realising to see us achieving in another 2 or 3 years from now. It's all about realistic expectation.

[der Berliner 3,302]

It is still living memory that we started our road back up the leagues in Peterhead in August 2012. Given the circumstances around the club, we handled our journey in an admirable way. We came unstuck just before getting back into the top tier and our first season(s) weren't great, for one reason or another. Eventually, we managed 55 and, truth be told, did tremendously in an European environment that was essentially on par with (if not above) our capabilities. 

 

Yet, when it comes to Champions League elite football, we are still at Peterhead-level. As in: there is a long road ahead till we can dream of challenging the teams we have faced this season. There is no doubt in my mind that we might be able to hold our own against the Kopenhagens, Glimts, Plzens, Donezks or Haifas of this planet, maybe even Benfica, Brugges, Sporting or the like on a good day. That is the stark reality and will be a reality for years to come. If that sinks in, the gloom and doom will sure ease a little.

[craig 5,199]

Anyone who thinks we are in a position to compete at European level given circumstance and condition is either ignoring the situation or is hoodwinked by last season and getting to the Europa Final.

 

Since 1993 (so in the last 30 years) we have had TWO seasons where we made European finals and both times we greatly punched above our weight.  We have had another couple of decent forays in Europe which have been largely due to the unbelievable exploits of our previous manager and the legendary Walter.

 

We should remember that for almost a decade of that time we were largely financially outspending English heavyweights and also financially competing with many of Europe's top clubs - yet still couldn't really make a dent in continental competition.  Some of Europe's top clubs are spending well over 100 million in transfer fees and still find they can't compete at this level.  With our paltry income neither should we be.  Yes, we have a proud, storied history and are one of football's most successful clubs - but UEFA have seen to it that a handful of leagues and a handful of clubs within those leagues will continue to increase the chasm between the have and have-nots.

 

Yet here we are, in a footballing, and financial, backwater - somehow thinking we should be competing at this level.  We, myself, included - I actually felt we could finish 2nd in this group or, at worst, 3rd and drop to the Europa - I thought we could take points off both Ajax and Napoli home AND away.... how foolish I was - Napoli have such quality that they are my dark horses to go all the way.  Throw in last season's beaten finalists and a Dutch club steeped in history and a knack of having technically wonderful players.... and zero points, and worst record in the competitions history, isnt as much of a surprise as we would otherwise think.  Incredibly disappointing, yes.  Surprising ?  Shouldn't have been - though my blind faith had me believing.

 

The team who finished 3rd in our group spent more money on one player than we spent on our whole squad in the summer..... and that one player so happened to be our player - so we are losing our best players but having to use those funds to revitalise a whole squad.  The economics just don't stack up for us to be competitive at this level yet.

 

The Europa last season, and even our runs in the previous couple of seasons before, appear to be the abhorration rather than the norm.

 

For now, I am going to look back fondly on Manchester and Seville and recognise that I got to see my team in two finals that, realistically, I shouldnt have.  Some will take the juxta position of that and be gutted/annoyed/frustrated that we have been very humbled in this season's CL, as is their prerogative.  But a touch of realism should soon have most realizing that is where we are.  Manchester and Seville should be cherished because they probably shouldnt have happened.

[Bill 13,717]

The consensus seems to be clear. Calm down, moderate expectations or go mad. 

[weebluedevil 1,179]

6 hours ago, craig said:

Anyone who thinks we are in a position to compete at European level given circumstance and condition is either ignoring the situation or is hoodwinked by last season and getting to the Europa.

 

Since 1993 (so in the last 30 years) we have had TWO seasons where we made European finals and both times we greatly punched above our weight.  We have had another couple of decent forays in Europe which have been largely due to the unbelievable exploits of our previous manager and the legendary Walter.

 

We should remember that for almost a decade of that time we were largely financially outspending English heavyweights and also financially competing with many of Europe's top clubs - yet still couldn't really make a dent in continental competition.  Some of Europe's top clubs are spending well over 100 million in transfer fees and still find they can't compete at this level.  With our paltry income neither should we be.  Yes, we have a proud, storied history and are one of football's most successful clubs - but UEFA have seen to it that a handful of leagues and a handful of clubs within those leagues will continue to increase the chasm between the have and have-nots.

 

Yet here we are, in a footballing, and financial, backwater - somehow thinking we should be competing at this level.  I, myself, included - I actually felt we could finish 2nd in this group or, at worst, 3rd and drop to the Europa - I thought we could take points off both Ajax and Napoli home AND away.... how foolish I was - Napoli have such quality that they are my dark horses to go all the way.  Throw in last season's beaten finalists and a Dutch club steeped in history and a knack of having technically wonderful players.... and zero points, and worst record in the competitions history, isnt as much of a surprise as we would otherwise think.  Incredibly disappointing, yes.  Surprising ?  Shouldn't have been - though my blind faith had me believing.

 

The team who finished 3rd in our group spent more money on one player than we spent on our whole squad in the summer..... and that one player so happened to be our player - so we are losing our best players but having to use those funds to revitalise a whole squad.  The economics just don't stack up for us to be competitive at this level yet.

 

The Europa last season, and even our runs in the previous couple of seasons before, appear to be the abhorration rather than the norm.

 

For now, I am going to look back fondly on Manchester and Seville and recognise that I got to see my team in two finals that, realistically, I shouldnt have.  Some will take the juxta position of that and be gutted/annoyed/frustrated that we have been very humbled in this season's CL, as is their prerogative.  But a touch of realism should soon have most realizing that is where we are.  Manchester and Seville should be cherished because they probably shouldnt have happened.

This word 'compete' again. The definition or context of its use is what's dividing opinion. We cannot compete financially at this level, sure, very obviously. We cannot compete to win the competition, again that's clear. It's difficult to compete to get out of the group we were in or even for 3rd and a run in the EL. However , I think we could have competed better if we had the luck of a better draw. But we should certainly be competing in every game we play  - by that I mean putting up a damned good fight - making it hard for teams to beat us even if, inevitably, they would. That to me is what competing means, and I expect that from any Rangers team, ravaged with injuries or not. That's what playing for Rangers means. That would sit okay with our fans - we have a sense of realism and will back the manager and team as long as you can hold your head high at the final whistle knowing you gave everything to the cause. 

[Gonzo79 13,822]

16 minutes ago, weebluedevil said:

This word 'compete' again. The definition or context of its use is what's dividing opinion.

There would be no point in professional football if the more expensively assembled team won every match.

 

There's accepting getting beat off a better side and then there's using finances as an excuse for piss poor performances. 

 

We got beaten by three better teams but we barely competed, in terms of fight, desire, self belief, effort and tactics - that's what I'm annoyed about.  

[Bill 13,717]

What exactly is this "compete" thing that everyone is talking about? Is it running around faster or further? Is it tackling harder? Is it measured by the number of yellow cards you get? What?

 

Because really good teams take those things in their stride. If you charge around trying to pressure the ball, they simply pass it around you and exploit the spaces you inevitably leave. If you put in heavy tackles you only end up with fewer players on the park. 

 

To me, competing means having the best configuration on the park, with every player understanding and executing his role ... with motivation, discipline and concentration. It means having players with comparable technical skills who have excellent pass completion numbers, who don't concede possession within three passes, etc. Those are the sort of things we need in order to be able to "compete" and we simply don't have the quality of players to deliver them. If I'm anywhere close to being right then how the hell are we going to "compete" against the level of opponent we faced in the CL?

 

Our players did drop their heads - because they were demoralised by the clear evidence that they were up against opponents who were superior in almost every way possible and for whom we had no answer. The day may come when we have players of the required calibre but it won't be next season or the season after that or even the season after that. If we want to be anxious about something, make it realistic and fret about how we compete against Celtic to win our own league title (which we've managed only once in eleven years) and then how we compete against Europa League/Conference teams. For the time being, the CL is nothing more than a financial exercise.

[Gonzo79 13,822]

19 minutes ago, Bill said:

What exactly is this "compete" thing that everyone is talking about?

Set up to make it difficult for high quality opposition and try hard for the full match (we see these things happen week in, week out from opposition teams in domestic football, so the concept isn't an alien one).  

 

We didn't do either of these things against Ajax (both matches) or after Jack got taken off against Liverpool.  

Edited November 3, 2022 by Gonzo79

[PoohBear 1,087]

I don't think it's weird to say that you want to see the players expend some energy and show passion.