craig

You make an amusing but fair point. That could very well be the case. However, if Celtic lose it potentially hinders their European hopes too.

I wish I didnt remember it - remember it all too well sadly.

Jimbojim - I didn't realise the asylum let you lot on the computers. You have done a great job, on behalf of Aberdeen fans, of convincing people that Aberdeen fans aren't scum. Well done, we congratulate you on your efforts Sadly... you want to chastise Rangers for what ? Being sectarian ? Funny that, given you used the term "hun" which you should know is deemed sectarian - so, aside from being a tit, you also just made yourself a hypocrite. Frankie, don't ban him - let us toy around with him for a wee bit - I have a feeling it would be a lot of fun !

Is a cinch. If anyone wants it send me your email addy in a pm.

Your test will appear later - and S_A is not allowed to use the spreadsheet I just sent him.

what is 6/4 ? do the math. It is 3/2, right ? 3/2 (or 3 divided by 2) is 1.5 - decimals always work out the winnings and then add one for the stake. Decimals work out your total return (including stake - hence adding 1) Fractions work out your winnings and to get your total return you need to add back your stake.

In which case then yes, a 3/1 shot is 4.00 - with decimals they always add your stake to get the amount you would win. Example in fractions - a tenner at 3/1 - you win 3 times your money so you win 30 quid. You also get your stake back of 10 quid for a total return of 40 quid. Example in decimals - a tenner at 4.00 - you get 10 quid times 4.00 back - 40 quid.

Nah, for an odds on favourite the odds are less than 2. You can actually work the decimals out yourself. Get your calculator and plug in 1, then divide button, then 3...... and you get 0.33333333 - to get the decimal odds you add 1. So on a 1/3 shot the decimal equivalent is 1.33

Decimals is actually easier but I prefer fractions. Decimals : 2.00 = even money 2.50 = 6/4 3.00 = 2/1 etc etc

They must be some players if WS is considering letting Stevie Smith go - or at least not perenially injured.

On top of all that you have the rather obvious drawback of not being played in your preferred position.

All you need is a calculator or a spreadsheet as the formula is simplistic. If you like, I could email you a spreadsheet which should assist - just PM me your email address. The formula is basically as follows : game 1 - stake multiplied by odds and then add stake = stake 2 game 2 - stake 2 (from game 1) multiplied by odds and then add stake 2 = stake 3 game 3 - stake 3 (from game 2) multiplied by odds and then add stake 3 = stake 4 And so on and so forth to infinity....... But I could put it on a spreadsheet for you that would make it very very simple (i.e. put in your initial stake and then insert the odds for your teams and the rest will work itself out for you). Just let me know.

You said "they've ruined it" which seemed like you were blaming them solely for ruining the coefficient which isnt the case. If that isnt what you meant then my apologies - but it was certainly the way I read it. Either way.... they haven't "fucked it" any more than we have.

Yep, you worked it out right my man.

Sorry but to say "they've ruined the coefficient" is highly hypocritical coming from any Rangers supporter. They have done no worse than we have this year in terms of the coefficient. I still reckon the league is a coin-flip, unless of course they continue to be the beneficiaries of highly suspicious officiating.

I dont doubt you at all MF. Not one bit, you have no reason to embellish the truth. My point merely was that what is the reality for you is not necessarily the reality in the market place. You hit the nail on the head I think. If you have the collateral and, probably more importantly right now, the cashflow then you will find credit - certainly at your levels. At the level we are looking at ($250 million) the credit markets really ARE drying up. Whereas in the past that would be obatined from one bank or investment bank they are now looking at syndicating those sums. But at your value the credit is available. The project SDM had in mind for Rangers, Ibrox and the surrounding area would reaquire much more significant levels of funding and, from my experience recently, the markets are contracting away from the huge sums of funding. Each time that they are offering credit it is having an impact on their own credit and capital too (not forgetting banks have a requirement to maintain certain capital limits). You are of course right, there IS credit available but it also IS becoming much more difficult to obtain. From my own personal perspective I have been looking at getting into property investment but the mortgage markets too are an evolving issue - with down payments being offered at 10% and two weeks later not having the ability to get into anything better than 25% down payment. The market is contracting, for sure. Re your statement on Goldman Sachs I think there is more to it than merely protecting balance sheets but that certainly is an element to it. The banks STILL have no idea just how much they will lose because of the sub-prime and alt-a markets and, as such, are unwilling to put more capital at risk. The banks are fearful right now of the exposure they face. When giants like Lehman Brothers and RBS either implode or need a huge government bail-out then it sends shivers down the spine of the remainder. Hope all works out well with your new facility.

That would make us the same inter-toto cup team that pumped that lot 4-2 on their own patch. What a tit.

I would actually contend that they have NOT had a better start than us. Points wise yes but when you look at us vs them there are a couple of things : 1. Any points we have dropped we deserved to drop (except Aberdeen) 2. All the points we have were obtained without any real controversy 3. Given 1 and 2 we should have at least two more points. 4. They have won 11 games on the bounce, fair enough. 5. They got PUMPED by us. Absolutely murdered. 6. How many points should they have dropped if decisions went the way they should have ? There is a thread on this but I bet it is at least 10. They should have dropped points against St Mirren on opening day, Utd away, could have dropped points against St Mirren again at the weekend but for poor officiating. I think that they are every bit as likely to drop points as we are.

Sorry maineflyer but your experience is not necessarily the norm though. Good for you that this is the case but on this side of the pond (and I admit it may be different in the UK than it is in the US - but the UK usually takes a bit of time to catch up with the US) that is certainly NOT the case. In fact, companies like Goldman Sachs (huge investment bankers who previously would provide as much credit as someone would take - leveraging something like 15 times) have as much stated that as of beginning of November they were "closed till Christmas". We have been looking for liquidity facilities and there are very few companies prepared to provide it, even high street banks. Of course it could also depend on the amount you are looking for - we were/are looking for a revolving $250 million facility. But to say that it is easy to obtain finance is not quite the full picture - each circumstance is different - but obviously I am glad you had no problem and, in fact, were getting banks cutting each other's throats to get it.

If we had leadership and a clear vision it would be a GOOD thing - sad, but 10 years ago we would be happy about this because they would be the ones who would be worried about being 2nd. I dont think they are all that and I am nowhere near as convinced as you are that they will win the league - sure they wont have a distraction but not being distracted doesnt make you a better team - and they are NOT a good team !

That is what I said you deluded... happy.... Bear you ! :devil:

Would that not be number of away POINTS ??? They havent won away, just the one draw I think - in CL anyway. Nah... it is for winning the "Big Cup" as they like to point out.

Thoughts to Steven Davis and his full extended family. I suffered the same fate with my Dad when I was 24 - it is incredibly difficult.

Diamond assaulted Lafferty - and only about 5 yards from the linesman and the ball was still in the vicinity !

The one thing FOR SURE is that it is incredibly difficult to get credit these days. Our Company execs have met with Lehman (still operating), Goldman Sachs, JP Morgan etc etc and where 2 years ago they would give you as much money as you liked they have pulled the reins in completely. Calscot is right - everything about an economy (for the most part) is man made because the decisions are made by a bunch of humans who have no crystal ball and who have the decisions they make almost pre-defined by party politics. I also agree, when it comes to who is winning and losing in this downturn you can bet that even the "illuminati" are losing - the only way they won't be losing is if they are speculating and "shorting" the market. Chances are they don't get into funky investment strategies. I am no economist but it seems to me that it is impossible to have economies constantly growing - at some point there has to be contraction. Anyway, Spiers is still a bitter wee cretin.