Norris Cole

I'll be the only one happy he doesn't get picked then

Can't disagree with any of your points there. It ain't paranoia - we all know the score by now.

Please say that's rhetorical.

The SPL hardly have a distinguished history of helping Rangers in Europe do they?

Celtic fans sure have a strange way of showing it.

The fact that no UEFA letter was produced by Rangers after the "ban", only talked about, speaks volumes IMO. Surely if any such letter was handed to Rangers, the club would have waved it about and said "Here you go, there's nothing we can do". It would have made Murray's plea to the fans a hell of a lot easier for a start.

Just heard this is going to be live on BBC, Wed 23 October. Which is nice

12.45pm for the two furthest away trips, ain't that a surprise

"Whataboutery" is nothing but a sinister vernacular tool used by Spiers to ignore the bigots at Parkhead and gloss over his own double standards.

Replace "feni@n" and sing it with gusto. And if it's not "feni@n" that got the song banned for sectarianism then the least UEFA can do is tell us which part of the song did.

Even if "feni@n" is replaced? That's just different treatment for different clubs. Orwellian nightmare indeed.

As I've said Spiers would accuse me of "whataboutery" here but it's completely relevant - given the above, how does this affect other Scottish clubs who sing it? Totally agree.

This is exactly how I understand the situation. Now, given the above, what is it that we as a support are so reticent about when it comes to TBB? It baffles me.

I remember the period well - Murray just looked like he couldn't be arsed anymore, he saw us as irksome baggage getting in his way. It was an open goal for the bheasts and they didn't miss.

What does that mean though? The tune? The use of "Billy Boys"? Or just "feni@n"? Does this "ban" implicate other clubs in Scotland who sing the song? If they want us to change "feni@n", we sing "Celtic". If they want us to change "Billy Boys" we sing "Rangers boys". They can't say every possible variation of the song is sectarian, or are we really trapped in some sort of Orwellian nightmare? And yes, I think it's relevant and helpful to our case to point out the odd bheast song, even at the risk of Spiers accusing me of "whataboutery".

That's what I'm trying to get across, and something which was never going to happen under our previous custodian, who was if anything complicit in the ban. In an ideal world everyone could sing what they like. Perhaps if the bheasts had their immunity to sanction or criticism removed they would come round to this way of thinking.

Of course, that statement is not to say I'd want to indulge in any of their mock-outragery. The fact is though, that while they sing of killing British soldiers every week without "fear or favour" to quote Dr Reid, we have to watch what we say or sing precisely because of them. That surely, is a statement of fact.

As I've said in another thread, if Johnston wants the support of the fans, he knows what to do.

Yes that certainly sounds plausible calscot. That being the case you can't really place the blame primarily on UEFA. Iââ?¬â?¢m willing to believe they hadnââ?¬â?¢t the first idea of what TBB was all about other than to take the word of Spiers and his merry band of bheasts and their endless youtube clips and mock-outrage e-mails. Frankly Rangers fans can only dream of conducting a campaign like it. Other than the Mope lobby, the second culprits in TBBââ?¬â?¢s ââ?¬â?? hopefully temporary ââ?¬â?? ban are ourselves, the Rangers support. Either UEFA have banned the mere tune of TBB or we as a support have decided they have. If the former is the case, then Iââ?¬â?¢d suggest thereââ?¬â?¢s an awful lot of football clubs out there, not least in Scotland, committing a criminal offence on a weekly basis. This nonsense about TBB and the term "feni@n" being sectarian is a lie that could only be peddled in 21st century Scotland, though that is a debate which becomes irrelevant if we replace it with ââ?¬Å?Celtic bloodââ?¬Â a la ââ?¬Å?Ayr bloodââ?¬Â, ââ?¬Å?Arab bloodââ?¬Â etc. However encouraging it was to see TBB make a return among sections of the support last season, it sickens me the extent to which we have rolled over on the flimsiest of evidence that we were committing some sort of crime. Since the ââ?¬Å?banââ?¬Â, TBB has become more than a song for me. It is a symbol of the sustained, hate-filled and utterly unanswered attack our club and support have endured for nigh on a decade now. Iââ?¬â?¢ve said before that an analysis of the facts suggests the Rangers haters wouldn't have a leg to stand on if this was put through the courts, however I wouldn't like to be the poor sod trying to defend it in a Scottish court in 2009. If Mr Johnston wants a relationship with the fans and wants unity to return to the club, he has his issue right here. There are a lot of intelligent Rangers fans out there from various sites, some who have done painstaking legal research, who deserve an audience of mutual respect with the club, and to feel as though the club is on their side. TBB should be raised at every such meeting between club and fans IMO, no matter the hostility of imposters like Kenny Scott. The issue's neglect has increased its importance ten-fold.

I've said before that the current situation with the mhedia could be changed overnight.

Tom English is someone I've had my eye on for a number of months now. No friend of the Rangers.

I very nearly got caught up in the hysteria during the Euro 2008 qualifiers. Then I remembered how many of the Tartan Army are piss-soaked, anthem-booing, anti-Rangers, anti-British, chip on the shoulder bigots. Fuck them and fuck the SFA.

Incorrect. I will miss the Scotland game

A pretty uninspiring list there. Neill, Volz and van der Meyde may be worth the risk. May.

Hendry and Weir - now that's a hell of a thought. I don't think anyone would have argued with that. The two best Scottish defenders of their generation and both Rangers men to boot. I'm sure they'd have more than dealt with some of the gobby wee shites in green and grey we've seen in recent times.