calscot

Is anyone going to add Sionko to the Rangers "outs"?

I would be surprised. We only have 3 senior players for the two central positions who are natural choices. It's an area we need strengthening not weakening.

Whittaker will probably be offered about 12-14 grand a week, Ljungberg will probably be on about 30 grand. To me Whittaker is worth 1.5M tops.

He's great at going forward and beating people, but bad at getting back into position. Would prefer him as a left midfielder because of that although he could be cover for Hutton too.

6M loss and greater spending on players increases the debt to 16M. We need to find more revenue.

Agreed, it used to take about 8 games to get to the final, we played 10 in both the last two seasons and didn't even make the quarters either time.

I think part of not agreeing to 2M for Naismith is to prevent us being held to ransom in future. Kilmarnock have upped their fee purely because there have been a couple of other Scots transferred for big money. Their fee is arbitrary and not related to the intrinsic worth of their player. Naismith is not as established as the Hibs pair and is therefore more of a risk. You only have to look at the last big money deal for a young Scottish striker to a club outside Scotland to see a more realistic price - ie O'Connor to Russia for 1.5M. If we continually say, "Name your price and we'll pay it," to Scottish teams then we'll have bugger all money to spend once more. Imagine we spent 2M each on Murray, Rae, Novo, Boyd, Webster, Gow, Broadfoot, Brown and many others. We'd have no money at all. There is not much precedent recently of young Scottish players going for 2M+ beyond the exception of the Hibs pair and there are a few times Rangers have been turned down only for the selling club to get less or nothing later on. Riordan and Webster are good examples.

I presume he is including signing on fees in the 10m total and that it is gross not net. I also presume he's not copying Celtic and including the players' wages in the figure.

Why don't YOU pay the �£2M then? Easy isn't it? Or maybe not. Anyway I'm sure they'll take your advice and definitely sign him or not... And by the way, Rangers actually said three weeks ago that they weren't going to sign him, so what exactly are you sick and tired of? I'm sick and tired of people treating �£2M of the club's money like it was �£2. Has no-one on here actually ever tried to negotiate a deal or do you all eagerly say "whatever you want, I'll pay it"?

Looks like Darch blew up after being kicked in the stomach on the floor...

BC2 If you want to take your house analogy and run with it lets look at it in more detail, but this time in the eyes of the buyer. Supposing for years in Kilmarnock, and actually Scotland as a whole, the average top price for a home has been about 10-20k, with 90% of houses actually going for free. In fact the most expensive house in Kilmarnock has recently been 40K - what you paid a year ago for the best house of it's type in the country. If you put in an offer of 40K for a similar house in January to that most expensive one, would that not seem like a reasonable offer? Now the vendor might think their house is still worth a bit more for it and are ready to deal but suddenly you also buy a house in Edinburgh for 200k and they start thinking you can squeeze even more from you. So they hold on a bit till the summer and then another house is sold in Edinburgh to someone else for 450k. Now they think you can hold out for 150k just because of that. Remember, you have already just picked up a few other houses in Falkirk, Motherwell and in fact Kilmarnock for absolutely nothing. You then offer them 100k and subsequently 150k but using staggered payments. You are understandably wary of paying 150K up front for a house that was worth virtually nothing a year ago and maximum 45k, six months ago. The vendors stipulate earlier payments and you eventually agree to their terms. They then get some potential interest in their house from other buyers and decide their house is worth even more and start demanding 200k. You are sick of this and quite rightly pull out as any normal buyer would do when gazumped. Three weeks pass and they get a few enquiries but not one solitary offer. Sorry, but I fail to see what you have done wrong. The last time I was gazumped I pulled out and the house didn't sell for about a year - they obviously thought is was worth much more than the current market value of the time. I can't see how refusing to paying the new inflated price is embarrassing in any way. I think your house analogy has shown Rangers have not acted improperly.

Thinking about it, the "something missing" to me would be a creative midfielder who can quickly switch the midfield from defence to attack. Barry used to be able to do that but no more and Thomson and Hemdani are too defensive for that role.

I've beefed it up in the other thread if Frankie wants to substitute it.

Before you do, I've cleaned it up a bit for more general viewing: QUANTITY OVER QUALITY, OR GENUINE IMPROVEMENT? The following would appear to be the full list of transfers that Rangers have completed during the current transfer window: IN: Carlos Cuellar, defender (Osasuna, �£2.37m); Jean-Claude Darcheville, forward (Bordeaux); Alan Gow, forward (Falkirk); Kirk Broadfoot, defender (St Mirren); Georgios Efrem, midfielder (Arsenal); Graeme Smith, goalkeeper (Kilmarnock), DaMarcus Beasley (PSV Eindhoven, undisclosed), Roy Carroll, goalkeeper (West Ham United); Marco Michetschlager, midfielder (Admira Wacker, loan); Lee McCulloch (Wigan 2.2m) OUT: Dado Prso, forward; Stefan Klos, goalkeeper (retired); Gavin Rae, midfielder (Cardiff City), Karl Svensson, defender (Caen, undisclosed); Lee Robinson, goalkeeper (Morton, loan) Barely a glance is needed to see that the squad must have increased in size and looking closely at the players listed, there is a hint that better players have been brought in to replace those leaving. Ignoring the young players for the future, letâ��s break the list of transfers down and look at the various parts of the team involved - FORWARDS OUT: Prso IN: Darcheville, Gow Dado was an excellent player for Rangers, but the consistency of his performances has deteriorated proportionally to the decline in health of his dodgy knee, until he can no longer give his all for his beloved blue shirt. Darchevilleâ��s initial performances have been good enough to suggest he could fill the Croatianâ��s boots as any deficit in ability could be made up with far greater pace. Hopefully his short fuse can be dampened with some fatherly advice from his new manager. Having another decent squad member in Gow, should also enhance the squad, giving the attack more options, and letâ��s not forget that the former Falkirk player finished second top in the SPL for assists last season. So it seems the forward line has definitely been refreshed and augmented. MIDFIELD OUT: Rae IN: McCulloch, Beasley Rae was hampered by his injury for most of his Rangers career, but never showed the fans that they had really missed anything. In the end he wasn't quite up to the demands of a big club like Rangers but looked to have enough quality to improve most of the other SPL teams. McCulloch is obviously more accomplished and a Scotland regular. He should improve the team with his renowned consistent performances and his positional versatility could prove very handy in a pinch. Heâ��s the kind of player who could score quite a few goals from midfield for Rangers as well as providing a fair few chances for the front men. Heâ��s also not one to shy from a tackle and tracks back well. Again the squad will have an extra man to choose from, this time in midfield, and Beasley looks like he could be a handy player to have on the wing, with more experience and a definitely a few more tricks up his sleeve than Adam. Hopefully he can use his pace on the left, get good crosses into the box as well thrilling the fans by taking on the right backs. So the midfield also looks to have been beefed up to a noticeable extent. DEFENCE OUT: Svensson IN: Cueller, Broadfoot Svensson never looked like settling in to the team; he played like a promising youth player who just couldn't make the big step up to the first team. He regularly looked lost and was hardly adept at winning anything in the air. He showed little to suggest he would improve enough to be taken seriously as a first choice player. Perhaps a new start at another team in another country will be the making of him. Cueller, in comparison, easily looks to be a much better player; he already has shown reasonable achievement at a high level in Spain. His pre-season performances have been of a very good standard and he could provide the perfect flair partner for the no-nonsense Weir. Again Broadfoot increases the numbers giving Smith more options, and he also seems to be able to play left back as well as in the centre. He looks solid enough and could provide much needed cover in defence. So the case for the defence looks that bit stronger for next season; this bodes well considering that even after a terrible start, the Rangers back line was the best in the league. GOALKEEPERS OUT: Klos, Robinson (loan) IN: Carroll, Smith While Klos was arguably a world class goalie, for the last two seasons of his contract, he was a waste of a very high wage. His heart wasn't in it and, while you can't blame him after the way he was treated, he stopped bringing anything to the confidence or success of the squad. Carroll doesn't bring the fans much in anticipation, but he has enough of a high profile career to suggest he can do the unsung job of filling in now and again, when the number one is injured or suspended. I don't think spending fortunes on second 'keepers brings much of a return: as long as they are reasonable, they donâ��t lose a team too many points in the few games they play. Klos may have been replaced by an inferior keeper, but in the end it's pretty irrelevant and there is no way Rangers can afford to pay a fortune for someone who will mostly sit on the bench. That money has obviously gone into increasing the squad elsewhere. Brown brings with him more experience than the young Robinson and at least for that reason should be an improvement to the strength in depth. CONCLUSION It looks like Smith has not only improved the quality of defence, midfield and attack, but heâ��s improved the quantity too: a double whammy which can only be good for the clubâ��s quest for trophies and success in Europe. So overall, I think the squad has improved noticeably if not spectacularly over the summer, and if you remember Smithâ��s squad, after Le Guen left, was actually the best team in the league; it shows Rangers fans have very good reasons to be hopeful for a vast improvement in the new season.

double post

It seems to me that Celtic paying well over the odds for Brown has got a fair few SPL chairman rubbing their hands in anticipation...

RANGERS Ins: Carlos Cuellar, defender (Osasuna, £2.37m); Jean-Claude Darcheville, forward (Bordeaux); Alan Gow, forward (Falkirk); Kirk Broadfoot, defender (St Mirren); Georgios Efrem, midfielder (Arsenal); Graeme Smith, goalkeeper (Kilmarnock), DaMarcus Beasley (PSV Eindhoven, undisclosed), Roy Carroll, goalkeeper (West Ham United); Marco Michetschlager, midfielder (Admira Wacker, loan); Lee McCulloch (Wigan 2.2m) Outs: Dado Prso, forward; Stefan Klos, goalkeeper (retired); Gavin Rae, midfielder (Cardiff City), Karl Svensson, defender (Caen, undisclosed); Lee Robinson, goalkeeper (Morton, loan) Looks to me that we have definitely enhanced the squad from last year. Out: Dado In: Darcheville, Gow Dado was great but his performances have declined since his knee became too dodgy to keep him going. Darcheville looks like he could fill his boots as any deficit in ability will be made up with his pace. Having another squad member in Gow enhances the squad giving us more options up front. So I would say there is an improvement there. OUT: Svensson IN: Cueller, Broadfoot Svensson never looked like settling in to me, he played like a 16 year old who couldn't make the step up to the first team. He always looked lost and hardly won anything in the air. He showed nothing to suggest he would improve enough to be taken seriously. Cueller seems a much better player and has already done a lot at a high level, definitely an improvement. Again Broadfoot increases the numbers giving us more options and more cover, so I'd say the defence had also definitely improved. OUT: Rae IN: McCulloch, Beasley Rae was hampered by his injury but never really showed us that we'd missed anything. He wasn't quite up to the demands of a big club like Rangers but I'm sure he could have improved most of the other SPL teams. McCulloch is obviously more accomplished and should improve the team with consistent performances. Again we have an extra man to choose from in midfield and Beasley looks like he could be good to have on the wing with more experience and a few more tricks than Adam. So the midfield looks better as well. So it looks like we'd not only improved the quality of defence, midfield and attack, but we've improved the quantity too. OUT: Klos, Robinson (loan) IN: Carroll, Smith While Klos was a world class goalie, he was a waste of a very high wage for the last couple of years. His heart wasn't in it and while you can't blame him after the way he was treated, he stopped bringing anything to the confidence of the squad. Carroll doesn't bring me much in anticipation, but he has enough of a career to suggest he can do the usual job of filling in now and again when our number one is injured or suspended. I don't think spending fortunes on second keepers brings much of a return - as long as they are reasonable, they won't lose us many points in the few games they play. Brown brings us more experience than Robinson and for that reason should be an improvement. So although Klos has been replaced by an inferior keeper, in the end it's pretty irrelevant and there is no way we can afford to pay a fortune for someone who will mostly sit on the bench. That money has obviously gone into increasing the squad elsewhere. So overall, I think the squad has improve noticeably if not spectacularly over the summer, and if you remember the previous one under Smith was the best team in the league then we have reason to be hopeful for the new season.

I'm on the side that says our downfall RECENTLY has been signing too many mediocre foreigners who just come for an easy time and good money. However we have signed too many mediocre SPL players in the past, and we suffered the most for that under John Grieg and Jock Wallace. The likes of Clelland and Bolan also contributed to us being pants in Europe under Smith after he lost the idea that you sign the BEST Scots around which actually almost brought us the CL. My opinion is that our strategy should be to buy the best SPL talent and augment that squad with foreigners who are better than anyone in the SPL for their position. IE we shouldn't be bringing in foreigners unless they are better than we can get at home - unless of course they are as good as the best but cheaper. I'm not sure or not if Gow and Broadfoot are "the best" but Gow did come second top in the league for assists which doesn't make him mediocre. But these two came for free and it's hard to turn down good quality but very cheap squad fillers. It's akin to buying more than you need in a really good sale where things are so cheap you feel you just can't go wrong. In the end I think we need to judge players on their performances, not their nationality, we've had too many failures of both types to say one is better than the other. These days we need value for money and players who can hit the ground running, where we get them from is difficult to decide in advance. With the EPL getting an average income from television which is around the same as our entire turnover we can no longer just go out and buy quality, especially with the other big 5 countries in Europe also not far behind the English. Then there is the likes of Russia, Netherlands and Portugal all richer than us. We'll just have to see what Darcheville, McCulloch, Beasley and Cueller can do to enhance the first team and if the likes of Gow, Broadfoot, Carroll etc can come in and do a job when needed.

I don't see how winning the league is so out of our grasp. Walter Smith "beat" Strachan in the second half of the season with a team that could do nothing under Paul Le Guen, with no time and little money. I think he's proven he can do it. Celtic and others will claim they already had the league sown up so weren't trying, but that is wishful thinking. If you take a few of their late results away, we could have gone into the last few games only a point or two behind. The league wasn't tied up till three games to go, so you can't say they weren't trying till that point, unless they really lack character. In fact, I think their lead was responsible for those late wins. When you're cruising you are relaxed enough to score in the last minute. It's a totally different story when your really under pressure to get the points. Just ask Paul Le Guen. I think our performances under PLG against the bottom half of the table simply flattered Celtic and that they are one of the worst teams to ever win the SPL despite the good CL run. McLeish had a good CL run also with a relatively poor SPL team, so it is not a measure. Smith has now strengthened, as have Celtic, with neither team setting the heather alight with their signings. Most of them are nothing special or a bit of a gamble. I can see a close run race, but think Walter has the psychological edge. We won't drop many points to the wee teams and think we're more than a match for the likes of the Edinburgh clubs, especially now Hibs are depleted of their best players. Walter has already got the better of Gordon in the head to heads so those games don't hold too much fear. I think we may wind them up again by winning by point or so.

Thanks, that's pretty informative.

Guess at team for the second half? Carroll (sp?) Hutton Broadfoot Cueller Murray Novo Ferguson McCulloch Adam Darcheville Sebo

I think that's the thing with McCulloch. The risks are low with him but then the pay-off has less potential. If he was a financial investment, he'd probably be a high interest savings account - good but modest return and pretty much consistently guaranteed.

Here's what I've sent: After the match, Ibrox could use the big screens and tannoys to show the Setanta post match interviews as well as the pundits' analysis and replays of goals, chances and incidents. I believe this would be useful, interesting, entertaining and have the side effect of staggering the crowd's exit from the stadium; possibly reducing the number of people leaving early. Those wanting to wait for the crowd to disperse before leaving would no longer be bored or frustrated.

We need a page that comprehensively lists all the ins and outs for the SPL during the transfer window.

I'll probably agree with you there, but I want a good home cooked meal every day! I agree we could do with another first teamer but I already think we have a squad capable of challenging for 1st. We only lost the league last season due to dropping points against the bottom six. I doubt that will happen again next season. I don't think we can challenge because the squad is great, but merely because with WS we look at least as good as Celtic, if not better, and we're streets ahead of the rest of the SPL. Lovenkrands is a good player but he never gave his all for Rangers and that has been our downfall for the last few years: not enough players giving 100%. He also wasn't adaptable enough and Walter has been pointing out how important it is to have players who can play in more than one position. In the end Lovenkrands plays far better in a team who counter attacks, a tactic Rangers rarely use in the SPL. It's too much of a luxury to have someone good for the CL but pretty poor at home. I for one, don't pine for his return; I would rather we found someone who suits us better.