stole this from ff. re dortmund. (a great example to us)

[Tumshie RFC 0]

How many home grown youths do Dortmund play? I'll wager it's a lot less than us, so what can we really learn from it that is relevant to us?

 

Ajax imo don't really count as firstly, the whole Dutch system is behind them - which I'd love to transfer to Scotland, but that's not Rangers' remit. Also, according to Pete, their youth system hasn't been that successful of late.

 

The more I read about Basel, the more I think they are more relevant to us.

 

All the more reason why we should be investing in a proper scouting system Calscot. We even miles behind Celtic in that respect and that was before our recent problems.

For the money we have spent on Auchenhowie we should be producing better, technical players than what we currently are. That can come down to the coaching as well which also needs to be looked at.

Your right about Basel though - another great example of what can be achieved even if you do play outwith one of the big 5 leagues in Europe.

[Darthter 542]

Why are we looking to copy what some other team has done??? While I agree that there are many teams around the world that could act as a reference, as others have pointed out there are a lot of factors that simply don't apply to us.

 

We should be gathering info from other successful clubs, then using that info to develop our own system/setup which in years to come will be looked at & copier by others. The important thing is to have the right people to oversea the whole project - something we don't have!!!

[Super Cooper 0]

I really don't think it was that bad. - It was poor.

 

When some comes on with an incredibly negative post that ignores the normal ups and downs of ALL football teams to just put Rangers down, yes sarcasm is a reach-to reply - and pretty relevant. You've got to expect retaliation in kind. - You call that incredibly negative? I was holding back. It was small comparison in relevance to this thread.

 

Maybe you need to look at your debating style where you deliberately take things out of context to attack the club that all of us support on here. To me that's more the MO of an enemy than a friend. I personally don't expect people not to criticise but it should be respectful and where it is due. We don't like our club and fans being singled out for harsh criticism externally where we are no worse than anyone else, so why do it to the club here? - Just come out and say it. You are dying to.

 

But looking at myself, perhaps I need to hold back. You don't get anywhere by being confrontational. So I apologise for the sarcasm (don't really see the insult). - "Shitty anti-Rangers point." Don't you? Maybe it is you who needs to look at their debating style.

 

My reply should have been:

 

Firstly the money spent was over a period and so isn't really a fair representation of any one team. - In relevance to this thread, did Dortmund spend all the money from the opening post in one transfer window or was that like our spend, over a period of time?

 

Secondly, all teams have ups and downs for lots of reasons. The same team that lost to Kaunas, had a long hard season where they contested the Europa final - the first final for over 30 years so the investment wasn't that bad. The team won both cups and you would expect them to have won the league and also put in a better fight in the final had they not had to play so many games in so short a time while St Petersburg had a couple of weeks off. - I am not interested in descriptions of the season before, that is a deflection, i mentioned Kaunas, the year after that. Every club who enter Europe in the qualification stage have long hard seasons the year before, that is no excuse or reason for failing so badly.

 

Thirdly, ALL teams at some point lose to cheaper sides with Real Madrid being an obvious example. Man City don't seem to be doing so well for their grotesque investment. Great Rangers teams in the past have lost to sides with less resources. If football was so predictable it would be incredibly boring - like the SPL race now, but then on individual games Celtic have lost and drawn plenty. I'm sure if we were in a league with Kaunas, Unirea, Malmo and Maribor, we would finish above them. Maybe my opinion but I think it's pretty strong. - Depends what Rangers team you are talking about. This one certainly wouldn't. Sure teams lose one off games, that happens, of course it does, but in two legged qualifiers when you have already had a scare in the first leg to then be so poor in the next says to me there are issues there.

 

Fourthly, to complain about a couple of results when the manager was trying to build a team under the shyster, Whyte, who was deceiving us all and only pretending to deal seriously is a bit harsh. - Why did he need to build a new team? He had inherited a squad which had just won a double, the best squad in the country. It needed tinkered with, not ripped apart. Anyhow the European ties were lost by that very squad who had done so well for the club the year before, a squad full of quality. Why all of a sudden had they become so poor? Brining up Whyte and blaming him for something that happened long before he had any chance to destroy our club is quite pathetic actually.

 

Fifthly, I doubt you watched the Unirea games, they were freaky and full of bad luck. Even neutrals see it that way. I think you have to be pretty biased against Rangers to not see that. - Watched it? I was there. Freaky and full of bad luck. The excuses are flowing from you today. We were diabolical.

 

Sixthly, a basic understanding of European football would suggest that the champions of a country have a pretty good chance against the champions of a fairly midling and declining football country. The champions of Sweden have won the UEFA cup in the past against sides with much more money. It happens and it's disrespectful to think they should be a walk over. - Now you are scraping the barrel to excuse such an exit whilst implying i know nothing of European football. You really are something.

 

Seventhly, having sending offs to lose a tie is hardly related to how much money you spend. - The excuse of a 10 year old child. "oor player goat red cerded so we couldny win" Now that is pathetic. That tie was lost at Ibrox, we played well away from home with 10 and with 9 men, if you had any understanding of European football you would realise a 1-1 draw away from home is an good result.

 

I don't see how your point holds much water and I'm confused at its motivation.

 

I can see your points hold no water and your motivation is clear. Now i am new here, i don't know who you are or what kind of reputation you have on here, i notice it says Gersnet Writer next to your name, but if this level of debate is the norm on here then you won't see me posting much, if anything else.

 

I left another forum and joined this one to talk about the club i support with people who support the same club and was hoping for good banter and debate on Rangers. I post an innocent comment relevant to the thread and then get hit with that nonsense. I was hoping for better.

[True_Ger_1872 2]

I think the main reason why Dortmund are being seen as some revolutionary club is down to how they train their players. Some of their infrastructure looks amazing.

 

There is a clip on youtube about thier footbalmachine and it looks like somehting we could use to try and teach our players passing!

[der Berliner 3,263]

I can see your points hold no water and your motivation is clear. Now i am new here, i don't know who you are or what kind of reputation you have on here, i notice it says Gersnet Writer next to your name, but if this level of debate is the norm on here then you won't see me posting much, if anything else.

 

I left another forum and joined this one to talk about the club i support with people who support the same club and was hoping for good banter and debate on Rangers. I post an innocent comment relevant to the thread and then get hit with that nonsense. I was hoping for better.

 

Your replies above would be called an "elephant's entry into a china-shop" over here.

[Guest cail]

And our manager needs 10 million to win the 2nd Division...

 

Let's ask Queen of the South how much money they needed to win Div. 2 this year.

[der Berliner 3,263]

BTW ... while it works right now, after winning the title in 2002 and being finalists in the EL in 2002, they had to wait till 2011 for their next title. They did snatch the DFB-Cup (i.e. German FA Cup in 2008) ... so if you look at that, and the fact that their glorious side of 2011 and 2012 was and will be ripped apart during the summer, all that is left are decent memories and a healthy bank account. And that is the way of many German pretenders over the last decade or two. Which is not to say that their system is bad. It comes at a price though, and none that many Bears will want to pay.

 

That said, if we can learn from their set-up and build a successful youth training and scout network, this is the time to implement it.

[der Berliner 3,263]

Let's ask Queen of the South how much money they needed to win Div. 2 this year.

 

Try asking Scum FC how much they needed to put the SPL into place.

[calscot 0]

Let's ask Queen of the South how much money they needed to win Div. 2 this year.

 

You mean the club RELEGATED from the Division 1 last season?

 

You know a team wins the second division EVERY year, and NONE of them spend as much as Rangers. And none of them have them money. If they did, they would likely spend more.

 

The thing is none of them HAVE to win the league like Rangers does.

 

So did you predict they would need to spend as much as they did to win the league at the beginning of the season? I doubt it. All you're doing is using hindsight. I doubt you'll predict how much money it will take to win Division 3 next season. Funny how Queens Park did so well by spending nothing - at least we are a club who didn't come behind another who spent less than us, eh?

 

Do you want to play dangerously with Rangers future? I'd rather stack the odds massively in our favour, because we can and because we need to make sure.

 

QOTS would only be relevant if we DIDN'T win the third division by a big margin...

[calscot 0]

It was poor.

 

As was your post which came across to me as an anti-Rangers diatribe. We all have our opinions of others posts.

 

 

 

You call that incredibly negative? I was holding back. It was small comparison in relevance to this thread.

 

Holding back highly criticising Rangers due to a few poor European results bracketed between a Euro Cup final appearance and the worst crisis in our history? Can you not be more constructive?

 

 

Just come out and say it. You are dying to.

 

I think I know what your getting at and itâ??s a poor card to play. Come into a football forum, overly criticise the team in question, get opposition and then pull the â??sniff sniffâ? card. Fans can criticise as much as they like but as a fan they do respectfully and donâ??t take things out of context to make it sound worse than it is. Why do that? Enemies of the club do it all the time, if you love the club why do the same? No-one is saying you are a Tim but your aggressively negative start doesnâ??t really make you any better.

 

 

Shitty anti-Rangers point." Don't you? Maybe it is you who needs to look at their debating style.

 

That was my personal opinion of your point. Where is the insult if I attack the point not the man? Maybe I should change my style to say, â??Nonsense/poor/pathetic/diabolical anti-Rangers pointâ?. Is that to your taste? Or is my bad language a bit of a problem for you?

 

In relevance to this thread, did Dortmund spend all the money from the opening post in one transfer window or was that like our spend, over a period of time?

 

I hardly think that makes any difference. The point is how much the team on the pitch cost. You can have a team of freebies and sign a player for £5m then sell him and buy another player for £5m and so on for 8 years and â??spendâ? £40m. How much did your team cost? £5m NOT £40m. If you look at start of the thread, THAT is the way it has been compared.

 

I am not interested in descriptions of the season before,

 

Not surprised, your argument only has relevance out of context.

 

i mentioned Kaunas, the year after that. Every club who enter Europe in the qualification stage have long hard seasons the year before, that is no excuse or reason for failing so badly.

 

Ok, name ONE team who played as many games in such a short time as Rangers? You say you want a debate and then you come out with the word, â??excuseâ?. I donâ??t get people that do that. What is an excuse then? Any mitigating circumstances? Any point that disagrees with your negative view?

 

Depends what Rangers team you are talking about. This one certainly wouldn't. Sure teams lose one off games, that happens, of course it does, but in two legged qualifiers when you have already had a scare in the first leg to then be so poor in the next says to me there are issues there.

 

Then there are a lot of clubs who have issues. In every round, half the teams lose the tie. For me, shit happens and I can deal with it. I want Rangers to win every game but I donâ??t throw the toys out when it doesnâ??t happen. I also have some overall perspective on the circumstances when it happens. Cup games are always a bit of a lottery, thatâ??s why Rangers invented the Champions League.

 

 

Why did he need to build a new team? He had inherited a squad which had just won a double, the best squad in the country. It needed tinkered with, not ripped apart. Anyhow the European ties were lost by that very squad who had done so well for the club the year before, a squad full of quality. Why all of a sudden had they become so poor?

 

Thatâ??s a whole different debate for another thread.

 

Brining up Whyte and blaming him for something that happened long before he had any chance to destroy our club is quite pathetic actually.

 

Sorry but it seems you would say that. So Whyte spent the money he promised on Allyâ??s first choices? He got them in time for a proper pre-season? We played clubs after no preparation against a team halfway through their season â?? but you probably see that as another â??excuseâ?. Maybe you blame the club for the poor preparation but who was in charge? Eh, Whyte? The guy who started to destroy our club the minute he walked through the door.

 

Watched it? I was there. Freaky and full of bad luck. The excuses are flowing from you today. We were diabolical.

 

You may have been there yet you donâ??t remember its freakiness? Strange indeed. Even OUR goal was freaky. We played them off the park in the away game but unfortunately still drew.

 

Again the â??excusesâ? card, where is the debate you craved?

 

Now you are scraping the barrel to excuse such an exit whilst implying i know nothing of European football. You really are something.

 

So is that an insult? You seem to be attacking my character. I thought we were past that.

 

I think itâ??s pretty obvious that the best team from a footballing country is hardly likely to be easy to beat. Your argument seems to ignore it.

 

The excuse of a 10 year old child. "oor player goat red cerded so we couldny win" Now that is pathetic. That tie was lost at Ibrox, we played well away from home with 10 and with 9 men, if you had any understanding of European football you would realise a 1-1 draw away from home is an good result.

Ah, â??excuseâ? again and then another insult. You donâ??t even understand the point. Whereâ??s this debating style you boasted of?

 

 

 

I can see your points hold no water

 

By countering them with â??excusesâ?, â??excusesâ?, â??excusesâ?â?¦ Not impressed.

 

and your motivation is clear.

 

I agree, itâ??s clear itâ??s to counter rubbishing of my club by people who twist things to see them in the most negative of lights. You go to Rangers games, I donâ??t know you but I canâ??t help but think, why? Rangers are a generally positive thing in my life, even in the bad times; you seem to dislike the experience.

 

Now i am new here, i don't know who you are or what kind of reputation you have on here, i notice it says Gersnet Writer next to your name, but if this level of debate is the norm on here then you won't see me posting much, if anything else.

 

So you come on, rubbish Rangers with out of context criticisms, get an unfavourable reply from ONE person, that is then apologised for and given plenty of debate in addition, you then trash that reply and then spit the dummy out. You seem to have very thin skin and it needs to be thicker to last in any forum.

 

I left another forum and joined this one to talk about the club i support with people who support the same club and was hoping for good banter and debate on Rangers. I post an innocent comment relevant to the thread and then get hit with that nonsense. I was hoping for better.

 

No, I think you posted a message that overly criticised the club of the forum, expected everyone to agree with you and play the self-sustaining game of â??everyone trash Rangersâ?. Iâ??m sure there are other forums that are into that. Maybe even this one, but not me personally.

 

You were given reasonable debate, albeit at the second go and instead of engaging with it in proper spirit you get your nose out of joint, dismiss it as â??nonsenseâ? and threaten to leave. Any debate certainly deserves better in my opinion.