The McCoist debate - Some balance.

[calscot 0]

There seems to be a massive number of postmen that play for part time sides; according to some on here a few seem to play for every side. However, thinking about it, many postmen are very fit, they exercise every day -I know one who is fit and slim without any other exercise. Add in a few professional style training sessions a week and they could easily be as fit as a full time footballer.

 

They won't be able to practice skills as much and probably don't have the same natural talent as more successful players, but then that's why they are playing for part-time clubs and not the bigger sides.

 

The difference with full-time sides is more often ability, skills practice and development, coaching, and a higher level of experience rather than fitness. That's why Rangers win over 90% of games.

 

The weird thing is that after totally disrespecting these part-time, professional players, the same detractors still think that despite never even managing a side, amateur or professional (but maybe a computer game), that they can easily do a better job than most managers in the country including full-time, highly paid ones that have a wealth of top-level, international footballing experience.

 

I don't think I've seen a Sunday league team play the brand of football being talked about, in fact I haven't seen ANY Scottish team do it, including the SPL sides. So just where are people practicing this aspect of the trade - even vicariously?

 

However, I have heard phrases like, "my beloved Chelsea" and "Arsenal is my other team" and you start to realise that people are watching teams with £150m wage bills and demanding a Rangers side on about £6m play to the same standard. The lack of realism extends to a post above where some people apparently will not settle for less than competing with Bayern Munich and winning the Champions League.

 

I just wonder how many people asked for a unicorn from Santa and were left angry and frustrated when it didn't arrive.

 

Maybe Saltcoats shouldn't settle for less than competing with Benidorm as a holiday destination, but some will notice, it just doesn't have the climate to compete - unless global warming does something about it.

 

But I think these outlandish expectations are complicit to the lack of substance in the recent tidal wave of criticism of a club who have only drawn once in the league this season and won every other game.

[Hildy 0]

I think Calscot's post above sums up the damping down of ambition within the Rangers support. Apparently, we should be happy in our council house and stop dreaming of mansions.

 

We are Saltcoats. We even talk up postmen to deflect from our own inadequacy. The realism spoken of reflects the aspirations of those whose horizons are about as far off as Ailsa Craig.

 

The tone reminds me of schools which limit the ambitions of their pupils to the mundane, the ordinary and the 'realistic'. Reaching for the stars? 'Don't be daft, lad - you can get a job down the pit'.

 

We need to set our sights higher than the gutter that is modern day Scottish football - even if that means dragging the 'realists' in our midst along with us.

[the gunslinger 3,366]

I think some people have completely lost all perspective. We've played some lovely stuff at times this season scoring barrow loads of goals in the process, we've also struggled in games yet still won the vast majority of them. I don't think anyone is happy with the latter, other than the results, but recognise that he's in a no-win situation until we're back at the top.

 

We've all been puzzled by some of the selections and tactical decisions. But equally, the football is better than last season and some of the changes made etc.. have made a difference.

 

McCoist has shown little so far to suggest he is a world beating manager, but he hasn't shown that he is a totally clueless fool either.

 

I think two points which invariably get lost in these debates is that there has been a clear improvement from the dross last season and that McCoist may not be the answer long term, but that remains to be seen. At the moment he is meeting expectations and that should be good enough for the majority of the support.

 

i would add that last year we gripped about the set pieces. this year we have scored shed loads from set pieces.

[Crimson Dynamo 128]

There seems to be a massive number of postmen that play for part time sides; according to some on here a few seem to play for every side. However, thinking about it, many postmen are very fit, they exercise every day -I know one who is fit and slim without any other exercise. Add in a few professional style training sessions a week and they could easily be as fit as a full time footballer.

 

They won't be able to practice skills as much and probably don't have the same natural talent as more successful players, but then that's why they are playing for part-time clubs and not the bigger sides.

 

The difference with full-time sides is more often ability, skills practice and development, coaching, and a higher level of experience rather than fitness. That's why Rangers win over 90% of games.

 

The weird thing is that after totally disrespecting these part-time, professional players, the same detractors still think that despite never even managing a side, amateur or professional (but maybe a computer game), that they can easily do a better job than most managers in the country including full-time, highly paid ones that have a wealth of top-level, international footballing experience.

 

I don't think I've seen a Sunday league team play the brand of football being talked about, in fact I haven't seen ANY Scottish team do it, including the SPL sides. So just where are people practicing this aspect of the trade - even vicariously?

 

However, I have heard phrases like, "my beloved Chelsea" and "Arsenal is my other team" and you start to realise that people are watching teams with £150m wage bills and demanding a Rangers side on about £6m play to the same standard. The lack of realism extends to a post above where some people apparently will not settle for less than competing with Bayern Munich and winning the Champions League.

 

I just wonder how many people asked for a unicorn from Santa and were left angry and frustrated when it didn't arrive.

 

Maybe Saltcoats shouldn't settle for less than competing with Benidorm as a holiday destination, but some will notice, it just doesn't have the climate to compete - unless global warming does something about it.

 

But I think these outlandish expectations are complicit to the lack of substance in the recent tidal wave of criticism of a club who have only drawn once in the league this season and won every other game.

 

The reason Rangers are winning over 90% of their games is because we have a bunch of highly paid ex SPL players playing for us in League 1.

I don’t think it is outlandish to expect a side paying over £6m to players to play against a bunch of part timers to be able to keep possession and look good while doing it. It is about entertainment after all and I’m sorry but I’m not entertained if we win 4-0 but we grind the game out.

I’ve seen Rangers play against teams over the years that we should have run over the top of, AEK Athens, Strasbourg, Gothenberg, Unirea, Malmo, Maribor, the list is endless.

All these teams seemed to get very basic things like possession, footballing awareness and fitness right. They just looked like a good team. We don’t

[stewarty 1,876]

My main gripe with Ally is that we resort to hoofing long balls far too easily. I accept that part of the reason for this is to make use of Jon Daly's height and presence; after all, we've scored goals in each of the last two games which have come from his flick-ons. But reliance on this approach is lazy and makes for awful football to watch. It also plays into the hands of lower league teams who generally have tall and physical centre halves who will relish having a tussle with Daly, rather than having to deal with short passing football, runs into the channel from pacy strikers, and midfielders making late runs.

 

We do some of these things some of the time, and its enough to see us through almost all of our games at the moment, but against better quality opposition the route-one stuff will be too one-dimensional and easy to defend.

 

Part of the solution though, is to sort out our distribution from the back. Early season, Mohsni in particular was terrible for playing long floaty diagonals which hung in the air and were easy to defend. Foster too seems to give the ball away by playing hopeful balls into the channel rather than playing to feet. Black has a bad habit of playing these 'eye of a needle' style passes at times too, but has certainly been a lot better generally this season.

[der Berliner 3,247]

The reason Rangers are winning over 90% of their games is because we have a bunch of highly paid ex SPL players playing for us in League 1.

I don’t think it is outlandish to expect a side paying over £6m to players to play against a bunch of part timers to be able to keep possession and look good while doing it. It is about entertainment after all and I’m sorry but I’m not entertained if we win 4-0 but we grind the game out.

I’ve seen Rangers play against teams over the years that we should have run over the top of, AEK Athens, Strasbourg, Gothenberg, Unirea, Malmo, Maribor, the list is endless.

All these teams seemed to get very basic things like possession, footballing awareness and fitness right. They just looked like a good team. We don’t

 

Well, most of the above isn't the case 24/7 though. Which is what people appear to think. I would expect that in their books, we are Parma's or Lyon's Maribor or Unirea (a team that has ceased to exist, AFAIK). We live in our own world thinking Rangers are a great team and side and are bound to win most of the games and especially against the teams you have listed above. The Chelsea fans do the same, as does the ManU or Bayern folk. With that comes a mentality that drawing or losing a game is much more our own fault than anything else, a mentality that usually blocks out outside factors. And I know what I am talking about, since that is a mentality that runs very deep with e.g. Bayern supporters as well as those following the German national team. And dare you come up speaking about the opposition's standard, lack of pre-season and new players need to adjust. For up come folk throwing the "excuse" club your way, as if they have been joining up watching footie only last month. For years and decades Rangers (and any other bigger club) have had bad games against supposed low-key opposition, be it in Europe or the various national cup competitions. And these bad games are marked out, pinned on a club and then wielded as if there were no good times inbetween. You do wonder whether those wielding said club remember the teams Advocaat's Rangers beat back then, or who we opposed during the CL and EL run in 2008? Or, which obviously is ignored, what sort of possession/awareness/fit-looking footie those naughty sides AEK Athens, Strasbourg, Gothenberg, Unirea, Malmo, or Maribor play every other day of the week? (On a little sidenote, AEK and Gothenberg are by no means no marks in European football, even Malmö's quite often about.)

 

As noted above, if somesuch displays are put under the microscope, you could come up with a gloomy picture. But Rangers is no isolated case, it happens all over the place all over the time. IF people would care to look.

 

Likewise, the postmen remark levelled against the 6m wages is all neat and tidy, and can hit home oh so easily. By now though, as intimated above, we all should know that these "postmen" (methinks Stenny was actually fielding former Aberdeen and Motherwell players, even a Rangers ex-youngster yesterday) have years upon years of football experience under their belly too ... and always "enjoy" these cup-final affairs. Dunno whether you would like walking against the wind every time you open the door, if you get what I am saying? At this moment and time, our objective is to get back to the top tier. If people were expecting more than they get right now they should finally start to wise up. All we can do these days is beat the opposition and create a settled line-up of seasoned pros and talented youngsters, so they are ready to take up the challenge in 15 months time, hopefully.

[calscot 0]

I think Calscot's post above sums up the damping down of ambition within the Rangers support. Apparently, we should be happy in our council house and stop dreaming of mansions.

 

Or you can be Walter Mitty and dream of a world which doesn't exist. Except you're worse than he, as you are very angry when your outlandish fantasies are not realised and lash out at people in the real world trying to do the best job they can with the resources they are given.

 

The tone reminds me of schools which limit the ambitions of their pupils to the mundane, the ordinary and the 'realistic'. Reaching for the stars? 'Don't be daft, lad - you can get a job down the pit'.

 

You would prefer to tell kids they are failures and rant and rave at them if they don't become royalty or Prime Ministers. I don't see how having the ambition to be by far the best in your league when your resources are cut dramatically, is lacking ambition, with the longer term aim of being the best in the land. You can have your head in the clouds as long as you have your feet on the ground.

 

We need to set our sights higher than the gutter that is modern day Scottish football - even if that means dragging the 'realists' in our midst along with us.

 

And just what are you doing to help achieve these aims?

 

Has anyone heard of the SMART acronym for setting goals?

 

The S is for Specific which rules out most of the stuff people are complaining about, unless it's to win the Champions League

The M is for Measureable which again is difficult for subjective stuff like "play good and entertaining football".

The A is for Achievable which is where the goals of those wanting us to be like Bayern just break down.

The R is for Relevant which considering that we are not allowed to compete in Europe and are in League one of Scottish football makes all such goals irrelevant.

And T is for Time-bound - the critics seem to want everything NOW.

 

Whereas, winning the league we are in for the next two seasons by at least 10 points pretty much fits all the criteria.

 

But your whole argument is futile. If every supporter applied your philosophy, then they would come up against the brick wall that only one team can win the CL. Your attitude leaves every support bar one club angry all the time. if you're angry at Rangers, what would the supporters of the lower divisions in all countries be like with your attitude?

 

I just see it as a recipe for a miserable life - and it pretty much shows on this forum.

[Hildy 0]

Cal, essentially you are telling us that we should know our place, that we should accept it unquestioningly, and that we should do nothing to challenge or change the situation as it already stands.

 

This pessimism, this defeatism, wrapped up in a tidy bundle labeled 'realism', should be alien thinking to a club like ours, but I know that you are not alone, sadly, in your belief that we should be content to be a peripheral force in the world game.

 

David Murray asked that he be judged by our efforts in Europe. Now, we have fans praising the fitness of our postmen as an excuse for the incompetence that runs through our club like the Clyde runs through Glasgow. We have fallen so far that we are coming up with the most feeble excuses imaginable to disguise our shortcomings and inadequacies.

 

Raise your sights from the acronyms that have watered down your ambition and demand that the club be all it can be - not all that you believe it can be - which doesn't appear to be very much.

 

We have battles to endure on and off the park to clear the way for a better future - a far better future than competing in a two horse race with Celtic for a title that becomes less prestigious with every year that passes.

 

Rangers must recover - we can all agree on that - but it must recover to a level beyond that of European humiliation and dreary unwatchable football.

[Crimson Dynamo 128]

Well, most of the above isn't the case 24/7 though. Which is what people appear to think. I would expect that in their books, we are Parma's or Lyon's Maribor or Unirea (a team that has ceased to exist, AFAIK). We live in our own world thinking Rangers are a great team and side and are bound to win most of the games and especially against the teams you have listed above. The Chelsea fans do the same, as does the ManU or Bayern folk. With that comes a mentality that drawing or losing a game is much more our own fault than anything else, a mentality that usually blocks out outside factors. And I know what I am talking about, since that is a mentality that runs very deep with e.g. Bayern supporters as well as those following the German national team. And dare you come up speaking about the opposition's standard, lack of pre-season and new players need to adjust. For up come folk throwing the "excuse" club your way, as if they have been joining up watching footie only last month. For years and decades Rangers (and any other bigger club) have had bad games against supposed low-key opposition, be it in Europe or the various national cup competitions. And these bad games are marked out, pinned on a club and then wielded as if there were no good times inbetween. You do wonder whether those wielding said club remember the teams Advocaat's Rangers beat back then, or who we opposed during the CL and EL run in 2008? Or, which obviously is ignored, what sort of possession/awareness/fit-looking footie those naughty sides AEK Athens, Strasbourg, Gothenberg, Unirea, Malmo, or Maribor play every other day of the week? (On a little sidenote, AEK and Gothenberg are by no means no marks in European football, even Malmö's quite often about.)

 

As noted above, if somesuch displays are put under the microscope, you could come up with a gloomy picture. But Rangers is no isolated case, it happens all over the place all over the time. IF people would care to look.

 

Likewise, the postmen remark levelled against the 6m wages is all neat and tidy, and can hit home oh so easily. By now though, as intimated above, we all should know that these "postmen" (methinks Stenny was actually fielding former Aberdeen and Motherwell players, even a Rangers ex-youngster yesterday) have years upon years of football experience under their belly too ... and always "enjoy" these cup-final affairs. Dunno whether you would like walking against the wind every time you open the door, if you get what I am saying? At this moment and time, our objective is to get back to the top tier. If people were expecting more than they get right now they should finally start to wise up. All we can do these days is beat the opposition and create a settled line-up of seasoned pros and talented youngsters, so they are ready to take up the challenge in 15 months time, hopefully.

 

Would you agree though we have tended to underachieve against teams we should be much better against?

Most of the teams I have listed, we looked clueless against and seriously out of our depth I can accept every team has an off day but when it came to Europe for Rangers in the past it happened all too often.

Advocaats team was very impressive and on our day I think we could have matched anybody the only team that really had its way with us was Valencia. The UEFA cup run was great but dire to watch.

I’ve said before I don’t care if we win every game I want to watch a team that gives 100% and I want to come away from Ibrox feeling I was entertained. I have no problem with Rangers losing as long as we learn from it. In the case of Advocaat he learned from his mistake against Parma and we made played them off the park the second time. Smith, McCoist and McLeish we seemed doomed to repeat the same mistakes and I was never very confident watching any of their teams in Europe against smaller opposition

[der Berliner 3,247]

All our Scottish managers have not really made a mark in Europe and I would argue that they all agree on that. Smith played up to our strengths, as e.g. Chelsea did against Bayern and recently against Schalke. No harm in that, if success is the benchmark. Once we get back there, we should sound out a system for home games and those in Europe. That would need a technical advisor or the like, and quality players. The 1992/93 squad was a good one, and the opposition in Europe not "much" better. These days, the quality of players spread amongst the top teams is much better and if coaches get them to gel (like Guardiola is at Bayern ... and I'm no Bayern fan by any stretch of imagination), you have to be really up to it to mount any sort of challenge. In our current state we are a long way off from that and as I said above, I hope Ally can create a decent, settled team for the Scottish game. Whether he'll develop into someone with an eye for Europe remains very much to be seen. Us bailing out toe Maribor and Malmö was IMHo still very much up to variour factors, not McCoist's tactics or ability. But I won't debate that for now / again.