Rangers are Disappointing Me - and I want us to be better

[cooponthewing 1,139]

The OP should be filed under "Bamage"......

[Oleg_Mcnoleg 50]

Much of it is framed in a rather simple-minded and self-flagellating form of 'progressive politics' which elements of the left tend to and which the SNP has adopted (rather selectively in practice). It seems very much written through the lens of modern SNP discourse. I self-declare as left(ish) liberal(ish) and was a founder member of the FF handwringer set (remember the fun with the 'knuckledraggers'? Seems a more innocent time) yet it absolutely boils my pish. The idea that the nationalism has the monopoly on 'progressiveness' in Scotland makes me boak (it also makes me boak that unionists in NI have ceded so much of that ground to nationalists and republicans, but that's for another day). It means the piece cherry-picks individual aspects of our behaviour, takes them out of their context and then labels them a sectarian or bigoted or whatever.

I'm more than happy for us to reflect on the way we behave and present ourselves. We already do: witness the endless debates about, off the top of my head, the Billy Boys, that red hand salute or, more recently, that excruciating Tiffany bollocks. The NF swiftly found they were not welcome when they tried to use the Troubles to inveigle they way into the support. And we do that without sanctimonious, simple-minded arseholes like Spiers and the other self-proclaimed spokespeople for modern Scotland lecturing us.

As for the stuff about the team itself, I think we'd almost all love our first team to comprise eleven players from the West of Scotland who've come through the ranks. Unfortunately, we tried it and they were bloody awful. I take many things from supporting Rangers but enjoyment of losing is not one of them.

[Gaffer 1,665]

Hi All, lifelong Bear here.

 

I've recently been thinking a lot about how it feels to be a Rangers fan, and what I like and don't like about the club.

 

Then I wrote this article: https://rtvwrestling.wordpress.com/2017/07/21/my-disappointment-with-the-rebirth-of-rangers-and-losing-love-for-my-football-team/

 

In a nutshell - Rangers will never not be my team, and Celtic are just as guilty of bullshit, but as a Rangers fan, i'm getting tired of the negative image of us, and how a minority of fans invite a negative reputation for us. Now that we're in a time of rebirth, I think we should embrace it to become a more positive force (in a way I think would better represent most fans).

 

I don't mind you disagreeing, but if you do, i'd at least like to read it first.

 

Not trying to troll, and I'm not here to annoy anyone or anything, but I would be interested about how many people feel the same way?

 

Thanks for your post. I read it, and although there are some parts I agree with and appreciate, I just can't see where you get some of this from. If you can't understand supporters backing the opponents of Celtic, I just can't believe you're a football fan at all. It's only natural to 'support' any team that plays against your biggest rival. This happens the world over.

 

Also, perhaps I missed something between 2012 - 2016, but did McCoist really play so many youths? I don't remember that.

 

We all have our own opinions, but I'm sure you can understand the response you've had about your opinions.

[RiverBear7 0]

Hi all - apologies for just replying now. I've not been able to get back on til now.

 

I would first like to say that i'm happy there has been so much feedback, even if it isn't all positive. I've read most of the responses and probably owe you an answer to at least some of the common themes.

 

Yes, this is the first time i've posted here. I haven't used forums for a while but, yes, I have deliberately tried to find Rangers fans to discuss this with because, so far, a few have agreed with me or felt similarly. I will indeed, when I have time, like to discuss the team here more generally (you'll be glad o hear it won't always be in this way).

 

I think I should clarify - I hate Celtic the football team with a passion and I absolutely do not side with the Green Brigade (with the notable, probably unpopular opinion that the 'no bloodstained poppy banner' was one I struggled to disagree with. I have no problem with soldiers, but I do with the way politicians use our military and the poppy to keep sending lads off to war). I love the rivalry but hate them. I think that most of the time, they are equally as bad (the banners against Linfield, for example, and the fact that they really have nothing to do with Ireland). A major point of that article though was that, while I don't like them, or the extremist part of their fans, that can't let us off the hook with our BS. I don't want to make Celtic better, I want to make Rangers better.

 

Someone asked a specific question. What I mean by "as well as some positive aspects which are hard to criticise." I work but don't live in the east end. Celtic and their fans do a lot of good work with local foodbanks and help people find work, and the fans are a part of making that a success. You'd have to be pretty mean spirited to see that and think badly of them. I don't like Celtic and I don't like their fans when the footie is on, but it's not like they're all bad, just like we aren't.

 

A few people mentioned the SNP. Full disclosure: yes I generally vote SNP, but i'm not unfailingly in support of them. What's it to you? My opinion here doesn't have much to do with this. Though I mention independence, this article is way more about sectarianism and positivity at the club. To be clear - I don't care whether you support independence or not, and of course Unionists can be progressive too - I do think it's plain stupid to not support it because of a football allegiance though.

 

I kinda want to know what some of you mean when you say i'm doing what I accuse Rangers fans of doing? If it's intolerance, the only thing i'm intolerant of is bigotry, and I hate it's association with the club. Whether you like it or not - it is associated, and with some reason (even if it is because of a vocal minority). I disagree with Unionism, but if that's your belief, all power to you.

 

A few people have said some version of 'stop being a fan'. Well, as i'm sure you know, it doesn't work that way. Like most people, I support who has been my team for life, and that will never change. Another major point though was that all this BS surrounding us has just made it a less pleasant experience, and it puts other would-be fans off. I have friends from out of Glasgow who come here without a team, and are instantly put off by the way the bigots are. Again, it's unfair, but it's the way we're viewed, and I think we shouldn't be happy with that.

 

Rangers do excellent charity work at times, and i've done some stuff with the charity foundation in the past. StuGers, who commented on that, had a good point when he said that outsiders don't report it well, but I also think we could really step up and do even more really exciting work in the community.

 

A couple of people mentioned about my wishes for the team to be a bit more focused on Scottish youth. Yes, that is all it is - I don't want us to only sign young Scottish players, but I want that to be a goal for the club - to have as many as possible. As I said, some talented veterans will always have their place here.

 

Oh and finally, I used 'the Le Guen Years' as a figure of speech like you would for any managerial campaign but yes, technically, it's not accurate.

 

I hope that clears things up a little. I'm not wanting to get in to endless debates about things, though I'll be happy to discuss some things more. It's BECAUSE I love the club that I wrote the article, and i'm interested in seeing if people feel the same way. I think, while battling Celtic will always be crucial to us, we should be able to look ourselves in the mirror and not let ourselves off the hook because they're just as bad (which they are).

[Bearman 9]

You sound as if you have the finger on the button with loads of inside knowledge...can you start a thread on the paedo ring that operated at Parkhead for 40 years and has been subsequently covered up ever since?

 

Put it in the 'Lounge' where we can all discuss it since its not Rangers related.

[RiverBear7 0]

You sound as if you have the finger on the button with loads of inside knowledge...can you start a thread on the paedo ring that operated at Parkhead for 40 years and has been subsequently covered up ever since?

 

Put it in the 'Lounge' where we can all discuss it since its not Rangers related.

 

I don't really understand. I've said several times that, bad as Celtic are, this isn't about them. I mention them a few times in the article for perspective (and mostly to say that they're just as bad), but other than that, i'm thinking about Rangers. Whether or not Celtic had a paedo ring is irrelevant to how Rangers are now.

[Bearman 9]

I don't really understand. I've said several times that, bad as Celtic are, this isn't about them. I mention them a few times in the article for perspective (and mostly to say that they're just as bad), but other than that, i'm thinking about Rangers. Whether or not Celtic had a paedo ring is irrelevant to how Rangers are now.

 

Have a day off then...

[pete 2,499]

Hi all - apologies for just replying now. I've not been able to get back on til now.

 

I would first like to say that i'm happy there has been so much feedback, even if it isn't all positive. I've read most of the responses and probably owe you an answer to at least some of the common themes.

 

Yes, this is the first time i've posted here. I haven't used forums for a while but, yes, I have deliberately tried to find Rangers fans to discuss this with because, so far, a few have agreed with me or felt similarly. I will indeed, when I have time, like to discuss the team here more generally (you'll be glad o hear it won't always be in this way).

 

I think I should clarify - I hate Celtic the football team with a passion and I absolutely do not side with the Green Brigade (with the notable, probably unpopular opinion that the 'no bloodstained poppy banner' was one I struggled to disagree with. I have no problem with soldiers, but I do with the way politicians use our military and the poppy to keep sending lads off to war). I love the rivalry but hate them. I think that most of the time, they are equally as bad (the banners against Linfield, for example, and the fact that they really have nothing to do with Ireland). A major point of that article though was that, while I don't like them, or the extremist part of their fans, that can't let us off the hook with our BS. I don't want to make Celtic better, I want to make Rangers better.

 

Someone asked a specific question. What I mean by "as well as some positive aspects which are hard to criticise." I work but don't live in the east end. Celtic and their fans do a lot of good work with local foodbanks and help people find work, and the fans are a part of making that a success. You'd have to be pretty mean spirited to see that and think badly of them. I don't like Celtic and I don't like their fans when the footie is on, but it's not like they're all bad, just like we aren't.

 

A few people mentioned the SNP. Full disclosure: yes I generally vote SNP, but i'm not unfailingly in support of them. What's it to you? My opinion here doesn't have much to do with this. Though I mention independence, this article is way more about sectarianism and positivity at the club. To be clear - I don't care whether you support independence or not, and of course Unionists can be progressive too - I do think it's plain stupid to not support it because of a football allegiance though.

 

I kinda want to know what some of you mean when you say i'm doing what I accuse Rangers fans of doing? If it's intolerance, the only thing i'm intolerant of is bigotry, and I hate it's association with the club. Whether you like it or not - it is associated, and with some reason (even if it is because of a vocal minority). I disagree with Unionism, but if that's your belief, all power to you.

 

A few people have said some version of 'stop being a fan'. Well, as i'm sure you know, it doesn't work that way. Like most people, I support who has been my team for life, and that will never change. Another major point though was that all this BS surrounding us has just made it a less pleasant experience, and it puts other would-be fans off. I have friends from out of Glasgow who come here without a team, and are instantly put off by the way the bigots are. Again, it's unfair, but it's the way we're viewed, and I think we shouldn't be happy with that.

 

Rangers do excellent charity work at times, and i've done some stuff with the charity foundation in the past. StuGers, who commented on that, had a good point when he said that outsiders don't report it well, but I also think we could really step up and do even more really exciting work in the community.

 

A couple of people mentioned about my wishes for the team to be a bit more focused on Scottish youth. Yes, that is all it is - I don't want us to only sign young Scottish players, but I want that to be a goal for the club - to have as many as possible. As I said, some talented veterans will always have their place here.

 

Oh and finally, I used 'the Le Guen Years' as a figure of speech like you would for any managerial campaign but yes, technically, it's not accurate.

 

I hope that clears things up a little. I'm not wanting to get in to endless debates about things, though I'll be happy to discuss some things more. It's BECAUSE I love the club that I wrote the article, and i'm interested in seeing if people feel the same way. I think, while battling Celtic will always be crucial to us, we should be able to look ourselves in the mirror and not let ourselves off the hook because they're just as bad (which they are).

 

I can agree with you on a lot of points and agree we should support Rangers and not have other agenda's but we cannot shut protestantism and Unionism out of our history or just expect it to disappear because you or I dislike it.

[RiverBear7 0]

I can agree with you on a lot of points and agree we should support Rangers and not have other agenda's but we cannot shut protestantism and Unionism out of our history or just expect it to disappear because you or I dislike it.

 

Absolutely. I don'y have a problem with Unionism or Protestantism being a part of our history. It's when it get's to the more extremes that it's bad, and unfortunately, that's what a lot of people see us as.

[pete 2,499]

Absolutely. I don'y have a problem with Unionism or Protestantism being a part of our history. It's when it get's to the more extremes that it's bad, and unfortunately, that's what a lot of people see us as.

 

Do we have to change because of what people see us as? I agree we do have an extreme but some people will only like us if we are like them. That would be giving up on our own identity and we can't do that. Cut out extremism but never forget our history,