The Anti Rangers SNP

[Big Jaws 570]

5 hours ago, StuGers said:

Well if he regards himself as Scottish, then by default, he is British. I don’t see how this is difficult for some to understand.

It's not difficult to understand at all and I personally have no issues understanding your definition. But lets be frank here this is simply your definition.  The statement I made does not reflect my ignorance but rather your unwillingness to accept that there are other possibilities.

 

Obviously and without question Scotland itself is part of the island of Britain. Anyone born upon this island is by default a Briton everyone else is not. However there is the possibility through the derivative claim via the hereditary line which is precisely what Gough did through his father. Many athletes have used this and similar hereditary method in order to compete in competitive sports, World Champion ship, Olympics etc etc etc a level they may not have been able to compete at via the country of their birth perhaps because they just weren't good enough to compete with the top picks in their home country. It hasn't stopped them competing as team GB. From memory the most recent was an American female GB competitor in the Winter Olympics (The three female Nigerian bob team are all Americans yet competed for Nigeria at the Winter Olympics). There is also the possibility to compete for the home countries via commonwealth which can also lead to inclusion in team GB. One can also compete if a person has lived and worked in GB for 5 years with or without immigration. A classic example is the Somalia born Mo Farah highly regarded as he's been extremely successful in his field but no matter how we shake it the man was not born in Britain. He chose to become English and is widely regarded as a British role model because he competed on behalf of team GB. 

 

The problem I have with your statement is that its an extremely narrow set definition and without trying to be insulting its one that I have read the argument for many times in the likes of the Daily Mail. The key for ALL here is choice. A person can chose to compete for Scotland, England, NI and Wales and not be British. 

[BEARGER 1,829]

4 hours ago, MacK1950 said:

Like Bearger I have supported Rangers for over fifty years,have seen many highs & lows,shuddered at the thought that if it were not for circumstance I would have been caught up in the disaster of stairway 13,have attended hundreds of matches with friends and family.

The reason I have done this and continue to do so is my love of the club and its traditions which I would not like to see eroded.

Unfortunately this seems to be in some way happening with the actions of the Union/Vanguard Bears at the weekend.If they wish to go on with this why don't they do it officially and apply and pay for authority to do so and also get rid of face masking which is not seen in the likes of Orange Parades etc.

As to the foregoing arguments on politics it is obvious that no one is going to change any others views on this and has been quite boring to read.

 

You’re correct it is getting boring. When some try to align the SNP with Sinn Fein it just shows the depths they will plummet to smear and the utter bankruptcy of their argument.  When some say that there is a connection with any main stream political party and a terrorist organisation you know they are not right minded people. I await the photo parade.

[Gonzo79 13,589]

17 minutes ago, BEARGER said:

When some say that there is a connection with any main stream political party and a terrorist organisation you know they are not right minded people. I await the photo parade.

Sinn Fein was the political wing of the IRA.

[Darthter 542]

3 hours ago, StuGers said:

For the SNP saying things about Rangers fans, you just have to look at Twitter and the newspapers - it’s there in black and white.

Can you please point out some specific examples where the SNP, as a party, have commented negatively about Rangers???

 

There are examples of individuals commenting via their official MSP/MP accounts, which shouldn't be allowed & I will be contacting the party to raise this.

Throughout this thread, I have only see 3 (I think) names mentioned from the SNP - how does that reflect that Party as a whole??  The most vocal, and often mentioned is Dornan, who has made it quite clear where his support lies.  Other than that, there have been very few - out of a total of 62 MSP's & 35 MP's.....so we're actually talking about a VERY small minority of folk here, that is hardly representative of the entire party...

[T-1000 174]

8 hours ago, JohnMc said:

 

 Rightly or wrongly we're seen as out-of-touch with mainstream popular opinion. Despite most people in Scotland being 'unionists' flag waving about it makes people uncomfortable, it's not what most 'unionists' do. Subjects like Orange Walks and Northern Ireland don't engage mainstream unionists in Scotland, indeed I'd venture they actually repel them. As the country becomes increasingly secular all public expressions of religion are less and less popular and expressions of what many perceive, rightly or wrongly, as bigotry are quite unpopular. 

 

 

 

john, do you think that support of the IRA and the singing of Nationalist songs is equally repulsive to Catholic Scots? 

[BEARGER 1,829]

13 minutes ago, Gonzo79 said:

Sinn Fein was the political wing of the IRA.

Aye very good. Adams & McGuinness were terrorists and no mistake, SF supported IRA. One thing I agree with the DUP on it’s SF/IRA. Anyone who voted SF supported the IRA.

[BEARGER 1,829]

13 minutes ago, Gonzo79 said:

Sinn Fein was the political wing of the IRA.

Aye very good. Adams & McGuinness were terrorists and no mistake, SF supported IRA. One thing I agree with the DUP on it’s SF/IRA. Anyone who voted SF supported the IRA.

[StuGers 477]

4 hours ago, Gaffer said:

I'm so pleased our support is allowed to want different things, including independence.  I would like you to note that some parties promote the need to spend billions on nuclear weapons.  Other parties want us to take major steps to reduce carbon outputs, and thereby hurting many poorer countries.  Some parties want us to continue to be ruled by unelected people in Brussels.  Some parties want to increase taxes, while others want to reduce them.  There are many political policies that will cause our support to vote in different ways, depending on what's importantly to them.

 

I'm not defending the SNP here, but can you tell me a party that does not have members who criticise our club, or any others who display sectarian behaviour?  I follow quite a number of politicians on twitter and I think I've seen comments from members of all parties.  I've also been known to unfollow one or two that I believe are morons and not worth reading about.  I do however tend not to regard everything they say as a party line, rather a personal view.

 

My point is that I don't see any party as good, or party as bad.  I'll vote, but sometimes I'm voting for the least worst option rather than one that gives me all the policies I'd like (it doesn't exist).  I've voted for most of the parties at one stage or another.  However, when it comes to Rangers I'm fully committed no matter what happens.  It's further proof that politics and my football club do not mix.  One is irrelevant to the other.

In agree, but it was commented above that apparently people were saying that you couldn’t be a Rangers fan and vote for independence. I was disagreeing. Nothing to do with party policy.

 

I’m sure you can find all sorts of examples of people saying bad things about us but it’s an undeniable fact that the SNP have ramped it up recently. That is all.

[StuGers 477]

1 hour ago, Darthter said:

Can you please point out some specific examples where the SNP, as a party, have commented negatively about Rangers???

 

There are examples of individuals commenting via their official MSP/MP accounts, which shouldn't be allowed & I will be contacting the party to raise this.

Throughout this thread, I have only see 3 (I think) names mentioned from the SNP - how does that reflect that Party as a whole??  The most vocal, and often mentioned is Dornan, who has made it quite clear where his support lies.  Other than that, there have been very few - out of a total of 62 MSP's & 35 MP's.....so we're actually talking about a VERY small minority of folk here, that is hardly representative of the entire party...

The individuals make up the party. If the party aren’t willing to speak up and distance themselves from their MPs making very public statements, then they are happy to stand by those statements.

[StuGers 477]

3 hours ago, Big Jaws said:

It's not difficult to understand at all and I personally have no issues understanding your definition. But lets be frank here this is simply your definition.  The statement I made does not reflect my ignorance but rather your unwillingness to accept that there are other possibilities.

 

Obviously and without question Scotland itself is part of the island of Britain. Anyone born upon this island is by default a Briton everyone else is not. However there is the possibility through the derivative claim via the hereditary line which is precisely what Gough did through his father. Many athletes have used this and similar hereditary method in order to compete in competitive sports, World Champion ship, Olympics etc etc etc a level they may not have been able to compete at via the country of their birth perhaps because they just weren't good enough to compete with the top picks in their home country. It hasn't stopped them competing as team GB. From memory the most recent was an American female GB competitor in the Winter Olympics (The three female Nigerian bob team are all Americans yet competed for Nigeria at the Winter Olympics). There is also the possibility to compete for the home countries via commonwealth which can also lead to inclusion in team GB. One can also compete if a person has lived and worked in GB for 5 years with or without immigration. A classic example is the Somalia born Mo Farah highly regarded as he's been extremely successful in his field but no matter how we shake it the man was not born in Britain. He chose to become English and is widely regarded as a British role model because he competed on behalf of team GB. 

 

The problem I have with your statement is that its an extremely narrow set definition and without trying to be insulting its one that I have read the argument for many times in the likes of the Daily Mail. The key for ALL here is choice. A person can chose to compete for Scotland, England, NI and Wales and not be British. 

Yes, you are correct that people can represent other countries.

 

But you said he regards himself as Scottish which is different from just representing Scotland. I’m sure a lot of the modern Scotlland English players don’t regard themself as Scottish. If you regard yourself as Scottish, ergo, you regard yourself as British. You simply cannot say that Scotland isn’t part of Britain!