match thread (image) [FT] Rangers 2 (Murphy 23; Tavernier 90+2 pen) - 0 FC Shkupi

[craig 5,199]

17 minutes ago, buster. said:

In the context of the goal, it was a hopeful clearance that Tav and Candeias managed to make into something beautiful.

 

I'd hope that workrate is a given for all players and that if they don't show it, SG will point to the door.

The point, which I think you are missing, is how quickly Rangers fans jump on Windass back when he, as they perceive, shows lack of work rate.... yet give absolutely zero credit for showing a work rate which, lets be fair, wasn't his position to do in that situation last night - if Tavernier breaks forward it is really Candeais that is supposed to be covering... Candeais wasn't covering and Windass did - not only good work rate but an awareness of where his team-mates were.

[craig 5,199]

11 minutes ago, Big Jaws said:

Well if he goes down south should we sell him we'll get a lot more however if he went to another premier league side we'd get 3-500k for him. I based my valuation on him from the league he plays in as a full team player in the team who has finished 3rd in that league over the last two season.

We will agree to disagree. 

 

The simple fact is that there WILL be English teams who will want him.  You can base your valuation on whatever you want - maybe you should base your valuation on what we could get for him if he moved to Bermuda - zero, we don't do transfer fees here   - he is worth whatever someone is willing to pay for him, regardless of league he plays in and I am more than comfortable in saying that IF he goes then we will get far more than 300k for him, which would make you wrong in your valuation of him.

[Big Jaws 570]

1 minute ago, craig said:

The point, which I think you are missing, is how quickly Rangers fans jump on Windass back when he, as they perceive, shows lack of work rate.... yet give absolutely zero credit for showing a work rate which, lets be fair, wasn't his position to do in that situation last night - if Tavernier breaks forward it is really Candeais that is supposed to be covering... Candeais wasn't covering and Windass did - not only good work rate but an awareness of where his team-mates were.

Normally... or rather last season you'd be right however SG doesn't have Candeias in that position, well at least not in the two matches we've seen, its been Windass he's had there Candeias has been inside in midfield. So its Windass job to do that. Maybe SG thinks making him track and do that stuff will make him a better player or improve him somehow I don't know there is definitely more responsibility in that role than what he's used to.

[Big Jaws 570]

1 minute ago, craig said:

We will agree to disagree. 

 

The simple fact is that there WILL be English teams who will want him.  You can base your valuation on whatever you want - maybe you should base your valuation on what we could get for him if he moved to Bermuda - zero, we don't do transfer fees here   - he is worth whatever someone is willing to pay for him, regardless of league he plays in and I am more than comfortable in saying that IF he goes then we will get far more than 300k for him, which would make you wrong in your valuation of him.

I don't agree with you on any level here Craig and I'm not being obtuse so we'll just have to disagree. We bid 300k for Scott Alan at the same time as we were looking for a player in that role so there already a valuation that we can look at. Personally I think Alan is as good or better than Windass and I don't think his value has increased to the £1mil+ level some Rangers supporters seem to think Windass is valued at.

[Rousseau 9,405]

4 minutes ago, Big Jaws said:

Normally... or rather last season you'd be right however SG doesn't have Candeias in that position, well at least not in the two matches we've seen, its been Windass he's had there Candeias has been inside in midfield. So its Windass job to do that. Maybe SG thinks making him track and do that stuff will make him a better player or improve him somehow I don't know there is definitely more responsibility in that role than what he's used to.

I disagree: In a 4-3-3, the wide-forward shouldn't be tracking back to the FB position -- he should be tracking back a bit -- it should be the wide central midfielder (Candeias) covering. 

[buster. 4,808]

7 minutes ago, craig said:

The point, which I think you are missing, is how quickly Rangers fans jump on Windass back when he, as they perceive, shows lack of work rate.... yet give absolutely zero credit for showing a work rate which, lets be fair, wasn't his position to do in that situation last night - if Tavernier breaks forward it is really Candeais that is supposed to be covering... Candeais wasn't covering and Windass did - not only good work rate but an awareness of where his team-mates were.

1. I'm not really considering others opinions, nothing I can do about them even if I wanted to, which I don't.

 

2. Well done Josh for tracking back !

 

3. Who knows the SG&Co tactical plan yet,...covering that area in certain circumstances may be part of his new remit.

[Darthter 542]

25 minutes ago, craig said:

Sure, he was our top scorer last season, but how many were goals that you thought "wow, that was fantastic finishing from there" ?  I'd guess at not many.

 

Personally, I don't care HOW they are scored - 30yd screamer or 1yd off someone's arse - they all count.

McCoist or Boyd were rarely scorers of outstanding goals, they were 6yd box players pouncing on chances for the most part.  They also missed a helluva lot of chances and were regularly slated for it.

 

I'd be more concerned if out forward line weren't getting into the positions to miss chances.....some times all it takes is for 1 or 2 of those chances to start going in for the flood gates to open.  I also thought last night, the some of the deliveries could have been a bit better - more accurate ie. balls being slightly over hit, & crossing the goal mouth just a bit too high. Or low balls being put into crowded 6yd box, when a high ball would have been more successful.

 

Over all, I was quite happy with the performance.  I though the team looked calm, solid & confident.  They worked hard to get the ball back when lost & passed/moved position well.  I certainly can remember ANY worrying moments from Shkupi, other than their long range effort off the bar.  They were difficult to break down, but we remained calm and worked away at them.

[Big Jaws 570]

11 minutes ago, Rousseau said:

I disagree: In a 4-3-3, the wide-forward shouldn't be tracking back to the FB position -- he should be tracking back a bit -- it should be the wide central midfielder (Candeias) covering. 

I would agree with you if the mid three were set roles. However SG has had our mid three rotate so either Candeias, Arfield or McRorie would have been expected to have covered their runs from midfield which they were, a little slack, but the sort of were. Windass was covering the run from their LB which is why we had the space to run on as their two mids filtered over to cover leaving the spot behind in the LB position and also the wide Left (Murphy) open for us to move into. 

Edited July 13, 2018 by Big Jaws

[craig 5,199]

8 minutes ago, Big Jaws said:

I don't agree with you on any level here Craig and I'm not being obtuse so we'll just have to disagree. We bid 300k for Scott Alan at the same time as we were looking for a player in that role so there already a valuation that we can look at. Personally I think Alan is as good or better than Windass and I don't think his value has increased to the £1mil+ level some Rangers supporters seem to think Windass is valued at.

Scott Allan never went for 300k.  You are forcing situations into your argument.  Celtic paid more than 300k for Scott Allan.

 

I don't think you are being obtuse at all mate, we just clearly disagree on what a valuation is.  A players valuation really is what someone is willing to pay - Scott Allan isn't worth 300k just because that is what we bid for him.  If Celtic offered 500k for him and signed him for that then that is his valuation, IMO.  Windass, if he leaves, will go for significantly more than 300k - again, IMO.  And that will be his value.

 

Comparing him to other players and the value of other players is also pretty pointless. 

 

Probably best if we just agree to disagree - but I WILL be coming back to this thread when/if Windass goes for more than the 300k you mentioned

[craig 5,199]

11 minutes ago, Rousseau said:

I disagree: In a 4-3-3, the wide-forward shouldn't be tracking back to the FB position -- he should be tracking back a bit -- it should be the wide central midfielder (Candeias) covering. 

Completely agree.  The wide forward should be squeezing the space down the touchline, though not all the way back to RB - but the player who should actually be covering for the FB is the wide central midfielder - he is the one that has the shortest distance to travel and also should have cover in CM as his fellow CM's push over to narrow from left to right.