Coventry and QPR opted not to take a knee

[Bill 13,717]

1 hour ago, alexscottislegend said:

He does but no more than you do to promote your dogma. I will admit though that the crash had more to do with class than race.

 

 

[ChelseaBoy 2,232]

On 07/12/2020 at 16:49, Thinker said:

Really? It seems far more likely to me that the club involved will be forced to make a red-faced apology (as Millwall were), the supporters will be villified, and the resultant message will be a declaration of how important it is not to bend to this sort of thing.

 

Which feeds into part two of the previous question: is booing likely to have a positive or negative influence on the match, the morale of the players, or the reputation of the club?

It will have zero influence on a) the match, b) the morale of the players or the long term reputation of the club - i'd suggest that actions of those in the boardrooms at many clubs up and down the country over the years have done much more harm to the clubs than working class fans booing some virtual signalling that the football authorities/MSM/NGOs think they ought to witness.

 

 

[ChelseaBoy 2,232]

On 07/12/2020 at 20:16, alexscottislegend said:

The BBC? Your go-to source for all that's bad in 'wokiness' is it??

Well it's as good a place as any, though C4, The Guardian or New Statesman could have been quoted  

[ChelseaBoy 2,232]

On 07/12/2020 at 20:22, alexscottislegend said:

And talking of gestures, many corporations have embraced this anti-racism movement (Ben and Jerry for one). The CEO of JP Morgan took the knee with his staff. Yet his organisation were complicit in the sub-prime mortgages scandal when BAME customers were disproportionately affected and then foreclosed on them after the 2008 crisis. So that's the trouble with gesture politics.

Yes exactly. We have seen corporations falling over themselves to be seen to have the right woke credentials such as JP and Sainsburys, Unilever (Ben & Jerrys) all the retail banks etc etc.  It just smacks of box ticking and i'm glad this is being challenged by many more people and pieces being written to question the motives of those behind this within the business and sports arenas. 

 

 

[Bill 13,717]

On 08/12/2020 at 01:03, Franc Ergs said:

Well i'm not going to knock it ,as we haven't lost a game since taking the knee.

 

 

Believe me if I thought for a minute there was a connection, I’d be taking a knee before every game too ?

[ChelseaBoy 2,232]

https://www.spiked-online.com/2020/12/09/why-football-fans-are-fed-up-with-taking-the-knee/

 

Follow up piece to one at the weekend against dumb obedience and covers a lot of the points made in this thread. 

[Thinker 857]

6 hours ago, ChelseaBoy said:

It will have zero influence on a) the match, b) the morale of the players or the long term reputation of the club - i'd suggest that actions of those in the boardrooms at many clubs up and down the country over the years have done much more harm to the clubs than working class fans booing some virtual signalling that the football authorities/MSM/NGOs think they ought to witness.

 

 

Of course it effects the players. What's the point of being a supporter if support (or lack of) from the terraces makes no difference? I doubt it's a total conincidence that the match that triggered the furore ended as a home defeat to the managerless club at the bottom of the table.

 

To quote Millwall FC's response:

Quote

"The impact of such incidents is felt not just by the players and management, but by those who work throughout the club and in its Academy and Community Trust, where so many staff and volunteers continue passionate endeavours to enhance Millwall's reputation day after day, year after year.

And the negative press is bound to effect sponsorship, player recruitment and player retention. How could it not? It's difficult to quantify "influence", but if you can come up with a method, the answer sure as hell wouldn't be "zero".

[Gonzo79 13,597]

34 minutes ago, Thinker said:

What's the point of being a supporter if support (or lack of) from the terraces makes no difference

I was always under the impression it was a football match we were attending.  Fans are told to keep politics, religion and the like out of it, so why can't the players?

 

The main difference of opinion on taking the knee seems to be about whether it's a political act or not.  

 

In my opinion, all societal issues like this are political.  That's why we're all here debating it.

[Thinker 857]

29 minutes ago, Gonzo79 said:

I was always under the impression it was a football match we were attending.  Fans are told to keep politics, religion and the like out of it, so why can't the players?

 

The main difference of opinion on taking the knee seems to be about whether it's a political act or not.  

 

In my opinion, all societal issues like this are political.  That's why we're all here debating it.

We're there to support the team. Are you suggesting we should all sit quietly, as neutral observers without offering encouragment? Do you think the atmosphere the fans create has no impact?

 

IMO, if the players (or anyone making a gesture or statement) tell you they aren't trying to make a political point I'd need a solid reason not to take them at face value.

 

Yes, it's certainly a matter worth debating, but it's quite obviously too nuanced a question to respond to by booing from a terrace. If a fans group were to make a banner with a pithy slogan summarising their support for the team and anti-racism initiatives, but think taking the knee / BLM has become divisive, that would be fair enough. But does booing players who believe they're making a show of support for sufferers of discrimination send a message with a clear and unambiguous meaning?

[Gonzo79 13,597]

24 minutes ago, Thinker said:

We're there to support the team. Are you suggesting we should all sit quietly, as neutral observers without offering encouragment? 

We're there to support and assist the team playing a football match.  If I wanted to support the BLM movement, I'd have attended their marches.  I support anti-discrimination initiatives by not discriminating.

 

26 minutes ago, Thinker said:

if the players (or anyone making a gesture or statement) tell you they aren't trying to make a political point I'd need a solid reason not to take them at face value.

It's a shame the same can't be said about the songs we've had to bin.

 

Supporters - do what you're told.

Players - guide us in the ways of the world.