are we beyond critisism due to our current standings?

[nokiss 0]

All pi55 and wind. Answer the question ladies!

 

No. Absolutely not.

[Gribz 743]

Its a very fair question and all the views are correct on here whether its a yes or no - simply due to the fact that we are all allowed an opinion.

 

I dont actually think it's anything new. Even when I had my ST under the Advocaat years there was games that were utterly boring to watch. I remember towards the end of that season and St Johnstone came to Ibrox - me and my mate were so bored with the game and lack of atmosphere we left at just after half time and went to the pub.

 

But then we have to ask is it down to the level of Scottish football, or are we as fans expecting miracles due to past glory and the structure of the club? When I look around the UK I dont really see much excitement other than Arsenal and Man Utd - they play entertaining football most of the time. But they have been built upon over 21 and 12 years respectivley - no coincidence they have the longest serving managers by a mile.

 

Maybe the fans at Ibrox are partly responsible. Its like sitting in a morgue at times when the less glamorius sides come and play us. Im sure if there was a rousing atmosphere it would lift SOME of the players a notch or two. I just looked at Derby last weekend against Man Utd - there fans gave it one last shot and the atmosphere was brilliant from the start and the poorest side in the league gave the champions elect a run for there money.

 

Everyone is entitled to do act lkke they want at a game (to an extent) but its poor that Ibrox is so quiet unless a big game is on. I also dont think all seater stadiums helps that though.

 

As for criticisim of the current side - IMO there are a few players who deserve to be criticised on current performances and the manager should take some flak for picking certain players. Thats what the fans are entitled to do when they pay so much money out of there salaries. Yes players arent going to like it but they are on big money and should never be immune to criticisim.

 

Overall we cant complain about end results but we can complain about the lack of creativity in the team. Its something that hasnt been consistantly in the team since McLeish's early days when De Boer and Lovenkrands where in the team.

 

Its the old saying - we are effective but unpretty to watch. Its not a bad thing though as it can still bring success.

[Gribz 743]

PS

 

Just re-read some of the posts and picked this out from Craigs post, its a bit off topic but:

I am not taking anything away from Walter - he has done a remarkable job in a short space of time. In fact I dont blame him for last night at all. There should easily have been enough talent on the pitch to take care of Thistle (plus McCoist picked the team anyway

 

The Partick game is a prime example of how good Walter is as a coach and how much McCoist has to learn. It also crossed my mind that Ally would have been in charge for this game and its refreshing to an extent that WS allows this. Although its not the first time something like this has happened. I remember a previous game (East Stirling maybe) when Ally was about to make a change and bring Cousin on and WS came hairing down the stairs to the tunnel and told him not to do that as Cousin should be left for the Lyon? game.

 

We are lucky to have WS back and he has shown what a top high standard manager he is and he just knows how to win stuff. The turnaround has been brilliant in a year - infact he turned us around almost instantly as we were the best side in the league from january onwards last season - its really only his style of play that can be brought up for discussion.

[CammyF 6,787]

Off course this squad, or any squad shouldn't be exempt for critisism. In fact, as long as I can remember, we have, as a fan base been critical of all our squads.

 

During our most recent successful period (9 in a row), the squad and manager were rightly pillored for not doing well in Europe (1 or 2 seasons apart).

 

It is strange to think that during AM's final season in charge and under PLG's doomed leadership, we actually made progress in Europe.

 

What this squad have managed to do (so far) is progress in Europe coupled with domestic success. We did well in the CL group of death, we are charging ahead in the CL co-efficient ratings and are progressing in the UEFA CUp. We have won the first domestic trophy for 3 years, are top of the league and in the 1/4 finals of the Scottish Cup.

 

Now, some of the performances haven't been the best, but I'll bet a penny to a pound that we would all have accepted the above if offered it at the start of the season.

 

In saying that, there is room for improvement and the hard work has only just started.

 

Cammy F

[Bluedell 5,329]

Walter's plan was always to use strength and power to try and win the league this season. It was the way that he could see that he could beat Strachan's Celtic. I was told that before the start of the season from a very good source, and that's the way it has turned out.

 

I'll not criticise us for the way that we play this season. All I want is for us to win the league.

 

Next season is a different kettle of fish, but let's bring home the league and worry about performances later.

[CammyF 6,787]

Walter's plan was always to use strength and power to try and win the league this season. It was the way that he could see that he could beat Strachan's Celtic. I was told that before the start of the season from a very good source, and that's the way it has turned out.

 

I'll not criticise us for the way that we play this season. All I want is for us to win the league.

 

Next season is a different kettle of fish, but let's bring home the league and worry about performances later.

 

That is the exact same sentiments of MON when he took over at Celtc. He realised that the best way to defeat DA's Rangers and most of the SPL was to use sheer strenght and it worked.

 

WS is an astute coach, he knows Scottish Football inside out - he has spent money on players who will give him 110% and who don't know when they are beaten. Doesn't always make for great football but so far, its been successful.

 

Cammy F

[pete 2,499]

Everyone should be open to positive criticism which can help the team get better but unfortunately negative criticism is more general and helps no-one really. Calling players wankers won't give them the confidence to come on to a game it will in fact probably totally drain all their confidence. Singing their name's may have a more positive affect.

Personally i was totally livid at the Barcelona away game. A game we had nothing to lose after we went a goal down and still we stayed in a tortoise shell defence.

I do not pay 400 pound for a season ticket but as far as i would love to see great football my main hope for this season is stopping Celtic in their tracks and winning the league at whatever cost. I really don't think we have the players to be much more inventive but no matter what your view is i think everyone has to applaud the never say die attitude of all our players this year. for that i thank them.

[Wija 0]

Off course this squad, or any squad shouldn't be exempt for critisism. In fact, as long as I can remember, we have, as a fan base been critical of all our squads.

 

During our most recent successful period (9 in a row), the squad and manager were rightly pillored for not doing well in Europe (1 or 2 seasons apart).

 

It is strange to think that during AM's final season in charge and under PLG's doomed leadership, we actually made progress in Europe.

 

What this squad have managed to do (so far) is progress in Europe coupled with domestic success. We did well in the CL group of death, we are charging ahead in the CL co-efficient ratings and are progressing in the UEFA CUp. We have won the first domestic trophy for 3 years, are top of the league and in the 1/4 finals of the Scottish Cup.

 

Now, some of the performances haven't been the best, but I'll bet a penny to a pound that we would all have accepted the above if offered it at the start of the season.

 

In saying that, there is room for improvement and the hard work has only just started.

 

Cammy F

 

Cammy,

 

In that there is only 1 thing that gives me satisfaction - a cup in the cabinet.

 

All the rest are worth hee haw if we do not win the SPL and/or win 1 of the others. I would prefer to do all 3 others but I cannot see the team we have doing it because they are too stretched and there is no usage of hungrier, fitter fringe players when we play the Jags (for instance).

 

If we fail to win anything else is that a satisfactory season? i for 1 believe not.

 

But as is agreed, the team/management are not above criticism

[Gribz 743]

Cammy,

 

In that there is only 1 thing that gives me satisfaction - a cup in the cabinet.

 

All the rest are worth hee haw if we do not win the SPL and/or win 1 of the others. I would prefer to do all 3 others but I cannot see the team we have doing it because they are too stretched and there is no usage of hungrier, fitter fringe players when we play the Jags (for instance).

 

If we fail to win anything else is that a satisfactory season? i for 1 believe not.

 

But as is agreed, the team/management are not above criticism

 

See what your saying Jim but disagree about Europe. Getting to the quarter finals of the UEFA and putting out the team sitting 2nd in the German league is a good run for me. We didnt expect that at the start of the season and this was after great games against the French and German champions plus the mighty Barca at Ibrox in the CL.

Only one team can win the UEFA out of about 64 teams plus the qualifiers and the CL drop outs - normally its a big side and Bayern Munich are odds on this season but I'll look back at our european run this season and think it was a good achievment. But who knows where we can go with Sporting next up - a tricky tie IMO and a team id have liked to avoided.

 

But agreed on the SPL and SFA Cup - both are there for the taken at the moment - If we get 3 points next saturday against Celtic then its ours to throw away.

[craig 5,199]

I think that I have to agree with Cammy here.

 

Some of us may be forgetting just how shambolic we have been for 2 years until WS came back in January last year.

 

I for one wanted us to be more competitive but didnt expect a league victory this season, I just wanted us to be closer. WS is becoming a victim of his own success in his second stint.

 

When PLG left all we wanted was for the ship to be steadied, WS did that in a hurry and has a team obtaining very consistent results (whether or not it is with great performances).

 

I am sure that many of us would have wanted us to be challenging this year but to be 3 ahead with a game in hand and only 9 games to go is definitely challenging.

 

To have the CIS cup in the bag is a good start, regardless of how the team played is good.

 

To still be in the SC is good, especially as we are the strongest team left and, again, can only throw it away.

 

The European run has been a resounding success regardless of performance - dont forget we were expected to come out of the group of death with ZERO points - yet we were a whisker from making the last 16, we dropped into the UEFA and have beaten a couple of decent teams (not forgetting Werder had been tipped to go all the way).

 

We cant look into the future so can only base judgement on histrory and where we currently stand - and where we currently stand is : 1 trophy in the bag, still in the other 2 cup competitions we have entered and 3 points clear in the league with a game in hand. With the exception of performances we have NOTHING to grumble about. We couldn't be doing any better (except having the league wrapped up with only 9 games to go.... but that was never going to happen)

 

So, to date, we have progressed beyond surely all of our expectations, RESULTS WISE. Where the debate comes into play is with the performances and they have, IMO, been poor in plenty of games this year.

 

I think it was Bluedell that said it and I most definitely agree - WS came in and saw how poor our defence was and decided to, firstly, make it difficult to score against us. He did that - "you dont lose goals you dont lose games". WS will know as well as we do that we lack flair and creativity but when he came in his squad was a shambles and he had to steady us, he has done that.

 

He also has given us a much stronger squad than he inherited and for not much money (when you factor in the 9 mill he got for Hutton). He also has that squad with a lot of "Scottishness" about it, players who understand what it is like to play for Rangers - the way we have battled back in somegames this year has been impressive - that wasn't there when he first came in.

 

He has competition for every position which can only be good IF he used that competition to ensure the encumbents performed - but when someone like Charlie Adam is playing as poorly as he is yet still walks into the team that will eventually demotivate those challenging him.

 

Bit results wise we really cannot complain. Performance wise leaves a lot to be desired. The achievement and progress since Jan of 2007 when WS returned has been nothing short of incredible. I would hope that in the summer he will look for the flair we are missing. We could also be doing with a much higher tempo performance from the first whistle which we arent currently getting.