Cops investigate Ibrox soldiers

[BrahimHemdani 1]

You, otoh, have not made any case as to why the armed forces are deserving of their own day other than to claim that somehow they allow all the other professions to go about their business. Yet, when pressed for any evidence of this, you could give none.

 

Isn't the answer to that question perfectly obvious - the armed forces by their very nature put their lives on the line to defend our freedom. In the same way so do the Police and the Fire Services but not usually on a day to day basis. However I wouldn't argue against an Emergency Services Day; provided it was a formal occasion.

 

It's not "somehow they allow all the other professions to go about their business" that comment really does denigrate the Armed Services; it is a fact that they lay down their lives daily for our freedom by being shot by snipers and standing on IAD's etc fighting the Taliban, not to mention all the other conflicts that have been mentioned.

 

That is why they are deserving of special recognition, provided in my view that it is a formal and respectful occasion and not a free for all (which BTW I am sure wiill not be allowed to happen again).

 

In no way does that detract from the valuable services provided by doctors, dentists, nurses, ambulance drivers, teachers, refuse engineers etc; but it's just not the same kind of service, and I believe you are an intelligent person and know that full well.

[BrahimHemdani 1]

I would have thought that the point was pretty obvious and that the point you had to answer to was why you denigrated the status of the contributions given by the armed forces by writing this sentence : "All of these jobs are far more valuable to society than that of a soldier and far more deserving of recognition."

Can you not see how disturbing such a statement is to many people? However, if that is your opinion you are certainly entitled to it.

I should tell you that I have had a lot of experience with cancer nurses and hospice workers, my father and both of my elder brothers died of various forms of cancer, so I am very aware of their dedication and selfless work. I should also tell you that I am personally aware of the work performed by carer nurses. I have had nurses come to my home two/three times per week for many months now - I had a communication with Super-Ally in his health and fitness thread back in January. I asked the nurse this morning if she would like to have her work recognized by appearing on the pitch of a sports stadium and have the fans laud her and her colleagues. She was most definitely against such a demonstration as she would find it embarrassing. She would much rather be thanked by the family and/or her peers. She did add, and this was very revealing as I had not mentioned anything about the Armed Forces, that she had both of her children on active duty in the Armed Forces and would much prefer that if any section of the work force should be publicly acclaimed then it should be the Armed Forces. This happens regularly at football, baseball, hockey games etc.

 

I think you have hit the nail on the head here.

 

No one, well practically no one it seems, would argue that nurses and especially cancer nurses don't provide a dedicated and extremely valuable service; but generally speaking they don't put their lives on the line in the performance of their duties. Nor do other professions for that matter, except the Emergency Services.

 

It should't be a matter of which service or profession is more valuable to society; I was an IFA, perhaps I should argue about the value of the services I provided to my clients and get a day out at Ibrox? It's impossible to weigh the value of a soldier's service against that of a doctor or nurse, unless that is you're a doctor of philosophy. One could argue that a soldier is prepared to die to allow a doctor to save a life; but I am not sure that that makes one more valuable than the other.

 

Recognition is quite another matter as your point amptly demonstrates.

[The Real PapaBear 0]

Isn't the answer to that question perfectly obvious - the armed forces by their very nature put their lives on the line to defend our freedom. In the same way so do the Police and the Fire Services but not usually on a day to day basis. However I wouldn't argue against an Emergency Services Day; provided it was a formal occasion.

 

It's not "somehow they allow all the other professions to go about their business" that comment really does denigrate the Armed Services; it is a fact that they lay down their lives daily for our freedom by being shot by snipers and standing on IAD's etc fighting the Taliban, not to mention all the other conflicts that have been mentioned.

 

That is why they are deserving of special recognition, provided in my view that it is a formal and respectful occasion and not a free for all (which BTW I am sure will not be allowed to happen again).

 

In no way does that detract from the valuable services provided by doctors, dentists, nurses, ambulance drivers, teachers, refuse engineers etc; but it's just not the same kind of service, and I believe you are an intelligent person and know that full well.

 

Well, we'll just have to agree to disagree on the value of the armed forces compared to the NHS or to the Police and Fire services. And even if one were to accept your argument that the AF deserve special recognition, then that is something for wider society to do, not a football club. Football is a tribal, divisive hobby and seeking to align ourselves so closely with something that belongs equally to every citizen of this country is as inappropriate as it is undignified.

 

If, as I suggested, we were to have a Public Service Day or as barca72 suggested a series of days throughout the season recognising the contributions of the public services, I'm fine with that. That would be a legitimate thing for a club to do. But trying to wrap the military in the Rangers flag? No thanks.

 

As for fighting the Taliban, I'm not at all sure what we're even doing in Afghanistan - are you? is anyone!? - but it sure as hell isn't defending our freedom.

[simplythebest 0]

The only ones who see it as a point scoring exercise are the tims.

[barca72 440]

Well, we'll just have to agree to disagree on the value of the armed forces compared to the NHS or to the Police and Fire services. And even if one were to accept your argument that the AF deserve special recognition, then that is something for wider society to do, not a football club. Football is a tribal, divisive hobby and seeking to align ourselves so closely with something that belongs equally to every citizen of this country is as inappropriate as it is undignified.

 

If, as I suggested, we were to have a Public Service Day or as barca72 suggested a series of days throughout the season recognising the contributions of the public services, I'm fine with that. That would be a legitimate thing for a club to do. But trying to wrap the military in the Rangers flag? No thanks.

 

As for fighting the Taliban, I'm not at all sure what we're even doing in Afghanistan - are you? is anyone!? - but it sure as hell isn't defending our freedom.

 

Well ... , nah. There's nothing I can add. Have a good day, bud.

[pete 2,499]

Well, we'll just have to agree to disagree on the value of the armed forces compared to the NHS or to the Police and Fire services. And even if one were to accept your argument that the AF deserve special recognition, then that is something for wider society to do, not a football club. Football is a tribal, divisive hobby and seeking to align ourselves so closely with something that belongs equally to every citizen of this country is as inappropriate as it is undignified.

 

If, as I suggested, we were to have a Public Service Day or as barca72 suggested a series of days throughout the season recognising the contributions of the public services, I'm fine with that. That would be a legitimate thing for a club to do. But trying to wrap the military in the Rangers flag? No thanks.

 

As for fighting the Taliban, I'm not at all sure what we're even doing in Afghanistan - are you? is anyone!? - but it sure as hell isn't defending our freedom.

 

Whether we should or shouldn't be in Afghanistan is a political question and totally nothing to do with the men dodging the bullets and roadside bombs. Many soldiers probably agree they should not be there but it is there duty to go where they are told.

[The Real PapaBear 0]

Well ... , nah. There's nothing I can add. Have a good day, bud.

 

yeah, no worries mate. People usually bail out when they have to explain why we're in Afghanistan; You're not alone.

[der Berliner 3,292]

As for fighting the Taliban, I'm not at all sure what we're even doing in Afghanistan - are you? is anyone!? - but it sure as hell isn't defending our freedom.

 

Well, Afghanistan was and is the main breeding place for Taliban fighters, local or not. And, some Saudi sheikhs aside, probably still finances much of the Taliban weapon deals with drug money. That said, I have no clue what the British troops do over there, the Germans were rebuilding local infrastructure as well as defending the more level-headed locals from the Taliban.

 

In any case, those who are offended by what the troops did at Ibrox don't care whether British troops are in Afghanistan, Gibraltar, or London.

[Juancornetto 1]

Well, Afghanistan was and is the main breeding place for Taliban fighters, local or not. And, some Saudi sheikhs aside, probably still finances much of the Taliban weapon deals with drug money. That said, I have no clue what the British troops do over there, the Germans were rebuilding local infrastructure as well as defending the more level-headed locals from the Taliban.

 

In any case, those who are offended by what the troops did at Ibrox don't care whether British troops are in Afghanistan, Gibraltar, or London.

 

In a nutshell.

[TheTinMan99 0]

Will our support back an independent Scottish army in the same way we back a British army? I have my doubts, which would question the legitimacy of most of the arguments in this thread. It's laughable that people think the modern armed services exist to defend our freedoms and liberty. It's even more laughable that people use that as a reason for what happened at Ibrox.

 

Comparing doctors and nurses to trained killers, is disgusting. They are literally opposite ends of the human spectrum, and not worthy of comparison. While there is no doubt that a "country" such as ours requires a reasonable "defence" force, I'm not sure they deserve the adulation they receive. Murder is murder, be it state sponsored or otherwise. This whole "just following orders" justification is a cop-out of personal responsibility.