Cops investigate Ibrox soldiers

[The Real PapaBear 0]

I would have to question the motives of those who live in our country and do not support it, rather than kowtow to their opinions. I believe in freedom of opinion but they would like to deny me the right to mine.

 

That kinda depends on how you define 'supporting' your country.

Some people think that spending billions of pounds we don't have in order to fight a pointless war we don't understand and which we can't win whilst wasting thousands of lives doing so is actually damaging to our country.

 

I'd also be keen to know who it is that's denying you your right to an opinion. Let me know and i'll have a word with them.

[chilledbear 16]

I enjoy the exuberance and laugh at some of the antics, but have had a small worry at the back of my mind for a while now.

 

Do some of the Support see this as getting one up on the East Enders? I'm sure they would deny it had anything to do with them, but the niggle has always been there for me.

[BrahimHemdani 1]

B.H. in post #42 you stated, " I'm not sure that politics and football mix all that well. ". I don't know why you think that Rangers hosting an Armed Forces Day is a purely political act. Rangers extend an invitation to the Armed Forces Command who in turn request personnel to put their name forward for possible selection. The troops are there because they want to be there and the fans are obviously happy to laud these personnel for their contributions to the services. Many football clubs in Britain do the exact same. This is not a formal occasion where the troops are marching on the street but rather an informal gathering where a great many fans are gathered and can show their appreciation to the troops. I think Rangers are providing a welcome opportunity for the fans and the troops.

In post #51 you state,

" As I suggested earlier, if we do continue with the Day, then I feel it should be a much more formal affair and I do not think that the soldiers should be allowed to break ranks and run about the pitch waving scarves and banners of any description."

On this one I am conflicted between the off-duty troops being allowed to enjoy an informal moment with the fans and the fact that the uniform still has to be respected. A compromise might be that they march onto the pitch, then form a circle(s) around the edge of the pitch, and in the stand easy position enjoy the fans accolades.

 

I am equally "happy to laud these personnel for their contributions to the services", as you put it; so long as it is not misunderstood as something else and have no intention of getting between you and RPB about the whys and wherefores of the wider issues.

 

On your second point I take the view that If the troops are in uniform then it IS a formal occasion hence the presence of the most senior officers in Scotland and in that context I would much prefer some kind of military display than the good natured exuberance shown at the Stenhousemuir game. If it was kept to a disciplined and formal occasion then I don't think that there could be any issue about the purpose.

[the gunslinger 3,366]

This only came about because the trollocs cant have an armed forces day.

 

They want our stopped as every year we have one and they dont more people see them for what they really are.

 

Its that simple.

[chilledbear 16]

This only came about because the trollocs cant have an armed forces day.

 

They want our stopped as every year we have one and they dont more people see them for what they really are.

 

Its that simple.

 

I agree with that, and would probably say keep it going.

 

They will complain no matter what the troops do, they are determined to stop it.

[Scott7 5,255]

The greenyins obviously keep a case eye on events scheduled for Ibrox.

 

I never know what's on at the Brendan Broo nor do I care.

[Chibmark 15]

This only came about because the trollocs cant have an armed forces day.

 

They want our stopped as every year we have one and they dont more people see them for what they really are.

 

Its that simple.

 

No, it came about because Rangers fans were singing about Terrorist Organisations and dead republican 'martyrs' and the soldiers joined in and starting singing the songs too.

 

If the soldiers started singing Blue Sea of Ibrox, then there would no issue regarding soldiers and 'sectarian' singing.

 

As for the reference to Celtic, I believe the phrase is 'fk them'.

 

I have zero interest in them, their results, their fans or their causes. We can't justify our fans misdemeanours or short comings by saying 'wit aboot thaym'.

[barca72 440]

Ref your post 26, shortly after you had begun the exchange by asking if I was "for real".

I happened upon this article on another site this morning and I thought I would post it for the edification of yourself and the rest of the hoi polloi.

By the way, it's "hoi polloi" not "the hoi polloi" since hoi is already a definite article.

Now, what were you saying about condescension?

 

As to the post above, you've really just made a series of statements, many if not most of them erroneous, without anything to back them up and which, in themselves, don't support or advance an argument.

 

The central point however is that your initial posts were full of assertions as to how our armed forces guarantee our freedoms and yet, when questioned, you admit you are unable to back this up in any way.

 

The remainder of your post about 9/11 and invading countries to prevent terrorism is (and I'm mindful of my resolution to try to be as respectful as I can at all times, here) at the very least the product of an unenquiring mind.

 

I'm getting kind of fed up with this, because I don't think you have any intention of discussing the subject seriously. You have shown that you have an annoying trait of dropping a statement designed to illicit a reaction from someone and when they raise a point you deflect from having to answer your original statement. I want to bring you back to your original contribution, post #23.

"alternatively, we could drop this display of militaristic jingoism entirely and replace it with something worthwhile. Why not have a particular day set aside ever season where we celebrate one particular branch of public sector workers - not just soldiers. We could have nurses one year, carers who work in old people's homes the next year, firemen the year after that. All of these jobs are far more valuable to society than that of a soldier and far more deserving of recognition."

I wrote back on post #25 that I would be happy to see these other professions lauded on their own day if necessary, but not at the expense of AFD.

"If you must laud their efforts then have a separate day for these other professions on a rolling basis, but do not detract from the fine work our forces do by appeasing the bheast."

Now I was thinking along the lines of what we have in society at the moment whereby we pick a day, and for instance, call it "secretaries day" and we recognize their contributions. I would have thought that the point was pretty obvious and that the point you had to answer to was why you denigrated the status of the contributions given by the armed forces by writing this sentence : "All of these jobs are far more valuable to society than that of a soldier and far more deserving of recognition."

Can you not see how disturbing such a statement is to many people? However, if that is your opinion you are certainly entitled to it.

I should tell you that I have had a lot of experience with cancer nurses and hospice workers, my father and both of my elder brothers died of various forms of cancer, so I am very aware of their dedication and selfless work. I should also tell you that I am personally aware of the work performed by carer nurses. I have had nurses come to my home two/three times per week for many months now - I had a communication with Super-Ally in his health and fitness thread back in January. I asked the nurse this morning if she would like to have her work recognized by appearing on the pitch of a sports stadium and have the fans laud her and her colleagues. She was most definitely against such a demonstration as she would find it embarrassing. She would much rather be thanked by the family and/or her peers. She did add, and this was very revealing as I had not mentioned anything about the Armed Forces, that she had both of her children on active duty in the Armed Forces and would much prefer that if any section of the work force should be publicly acclaimed then it should be the Armed Forces. This happens regularly at football, baseball, hockey games etc.

Maybe it might just be policy if you checked with the professions you purport to support to see if they would want such a celebration as you propose. We know that these shows of support given to the troops are greatly appreciated by the troops and are indeed a comfort to them when they are at times under extreme pressure on the front lines.

This thread was started to address the actions directly concerned with AFD, not about how we are involved in foreign wars. If you are prepared to answer directly why you feel the troops, in your opinion, are not worthy of such acclimation then please lay it out. If you are not, don't bother answering. Thank you.

[the gunslinger 3,366]

No, it came about because Rangers fans were singing about Terrorist Organisations and dead republican 'martyrs' and the soldiers joined in and starting singing the songs too.

 

If the soldiers started singing Blue Sea of Ibrox, then there would no issue regarding soldiers and 'sectarian' singing.

 

As for the reference to Celtic, I believe the phrase is 'fk them'.

 

I have zero interest in them, their results, their fans or their causes. We can't justify our fans misdemeanours or short comings by saying 'wit aboot thaym'.

 

The mod and police clearly dissagree with you.

[andy steel 0]

I'll get banned if I express my true feelings on people trying to diminish our armed forces.

 

I will say if Rangers bow the mock offended over this it's one of the few things that would make me consider walking away from the club.

 

I don't think you would be banned, you know. Many people would probably put their names to the 'agree' box under such a post for the majority opinion in the country is plainly to back the services.

 

What I don't think I could agree to is the leap you make from people having some issues over the armed forces = trying to diminish them. It's that kind of 'all or nothing' argument that doesn't make sense to me: 'either you fully back me or you're a treacherous swine, and quite possibly

 

because the media and the Celtic minded insist there were nefarious reasons

 

a Tim sympathiser to boot.'

 

As long as the bottom line is remembered - that the faux outrage of Timothy and his media cheerleaders has, apparently, been slapped down for the pish that it is, I don't see why we can't discuss the subtleties of patriotism as seen as the football.