World Class Rangers

[Super_Ally 0]

Hard to argue with your choices, Gribz, (although I would take issue with 7 being world class) and I wonder if your new category of "near world class" could just as easily be described as European or Top Quality European Class; because almost all of those players would come into that category. My personal opinion is that as good as Mols was, RdB made him a better player than he was in reality; and Prso was a better all round football player (won't easily forget him chasing after the ball any time he lost it, something I don't recall Mols doing, for example).

 

The only obvious ommission is Jim Baxter; but who to leave out? And what of Ronald de Boer himself?

 

Also like to say that Trevor Steven was a better player IMHO than Gary Stevens.

 

I like your summary of Laudrup, unquestionably in my view the only Rangers player in my lifetime, apart from Baxter, to earn the title world class (and have his place in the FIFA rankings to prove it). Gascoigne and Mikhailichenko (a place on the bench?) are the only Ranger's players to have featured in the European rankings, both earning one 4th placing in the nineties.

 

One player whose name I haven't seen mentioned in this thread is, Claudio Reyna, who played in FOUR world cups for the USA, correction he was in the squad but didn't play in 1994. He had 111 caps for the USA. That said he was not guaranteed a place in the outstanding midfield we had at the time (and for that matter neither was Albertz, Tugay or Kanchelskis) and often played at RB.

 

Is there much of a difference between top European class and world class. Out with S America and the odd African player etc you don't get many other elite players. Even more so if you talk about players plying their trade inEurope as opposed to representing a European country.

[BrahimHemdani 1]

I cant believe I left out R De Boer, not sure how on earth I managed that one. I guess I was going 4-4-2 and when reaching the strikers I was looking for 2 forwards. But I would edit the team and put De Boer in for Prso.

 

I couldn't put Baxter in as I was basing it on players I have seen. But Im sure an older bear could list an XI with the class players from 60s and 70s.

 

I like the idea of the category of European Class and admit it would take the 7/11 down.

 

Albertz is a funny one. One of my all time favourites but couldn't get a mention, he was certainly one of our better performers.

 

Reyna was a fine player but wouldn't make it for me. Tugay and Kanchelskis certainly would be european quality players. Going into that category Jonas Thern was a fine player, he captained Sweden to 3rd at WC 94, but he was past his best when coming to Rangers.

 

I like the description of me as an "old bear"; could be a lot worse

[BrahimHemdani 1]

Is there much of a difference between top European class and world class. Out with S America and the odd African player etc you don't get many other elite players. Even more so if you talk about players plying their trade inEurope as opposed to representing a European country.

 

Interesting observation and if you look at the European Footballer of the Year for the last 10 years the only European players to have won it as opposed to those plying their trade in Europe are Cannavaro and Ronaldo. I think this tends top prove that there is a BIG difference.

 

However, it is equally interesting to note that in 1992 for example these were the top 5 players in the world according to FIFA:

 

1. Marco VAN BASTEN (Netherlands)

2. Hristo STOITCHKOV (Bulgaria)

3. Thomas HÄSSLER (Germany)

4. Jean-Pierre PAPIN (France)

5. Brian LAUDRUP (Denmark)

 

ALL Europeans, but this was the European top 5:

 

1. Marco VAN BASTEN (Milan)

2. Hristo Stoitchkov (Barcelona)

3. Dennis Bergkamp (Ajax)

4. Thomas Hässler (Roma)

5. Peter Schmeichel (Manchester United)

 

So Papin and Laudrup were considered to be in the top 5 in the world but couldn't get in the European top 5; whereas the opposite could be said for Bergkamp, Hassler and Schmeichel.

 

More recently in 2009, Samuel Eto'o was rated 5th in Europe but Drogba, Torres and Gerrard who were all above him in the world rankings, were not in the European top 5.

 

The differences may be due largely to the fact that since 1956 the European award was organised by the French magazine France Football as the "Ballon d'Or" for the best European Footballer of the calendar year. Only players from European clubs are eligible. Until 1994 any player from an European National Team was eligible; but since 1995 any player from a European club (regardless of his nationality) became eligible but he must also be on a preliminary list of 50 players established by France Football. Voters were journalists - one from each member country of UEFA. Each voter choose 5 players and points are awarded as follows: 5 points for a first place in a voters' list, 4 points for second, 3 points for third, 2 points for fourth, and 1 point for fifth.

 

The first non-European to win it in 1995 was George WEAH; followed by Ronaldo who was, 2nd, 1st and 3rd in the succeeding years.

 

In 2010 the election was not held but combined with the FIFA World Player of the Year. Since it is (theoretically) not restricted to players active at European clubs, that is considered the end of the European Footballer of the Year.

 

However, until 2003 the world awards were voted for by the coaches of the national teams, each selecting three players and in 2004 rules changed and a preliminary list of 35 eligible players was established by FIFA; then the coaches and captains of the national teams, each selected three players who obtain respectively 5, 3 and 1 points.

 

So it could be said that coaches and fellow players rated Papin and Laudrup higher than journalists and vice versa for Drogba, Torres and Gerrard.

 

Which is the more valid methodology, I leave to others to decide.

 

For those with more time on their hands the lists are here:

 

http://www.rsssf.com/miscellaneous/fifa-awards.html

 

http://www.rsssf.com/miscellaneous/europa-poy.html

Edited October 21, 2013 by BrahimHemdani

[amms 0]

Terry Butcher was not only a world class player but his signing was the single biggest in Rangers history in my opinion. Butcher joined us the summer of the Mexico World Cup where Butcher was a stand out, it took the genius of Maradona to put a good England side out. Butcher was chosen for the team of the tournament and was at the height of his career when he joined us.

 

The chance of Rangers signing a leading Scottish international far less an English one was unlikely at the time, the signing of Butcher was a statement of intent which no one could ignore. Butcher's first season with Rangers was immaculate, he was not only an superb player but his presence at the club was huge. I still believe had he not broken his leg Celtic would not have won the league in 88 and the course of history been very different.

 

For me World Class is an epithet applied to players to who could play at the top of their profession, be it in the club game or international football. I think Gough showed at the Swedish Euro Championships he was more than capable at that level. There's no debate about Laudrup for me, he was easily world class. Look at his career both at club and international level, whether his brother was better or not is irrelevant, he was easily good enough.

[BrahimHemdani 1]

There's no debate about Laudrup for me, he was easily world class. Look at his career both at club and international level, whether his brother was better or not is irrelevant, he was easily good enough.

 

It won't surprise you to learn that I completely agree with that; but for the record the highest placing that Michael achieved was 5th in Europe in 1993 and he was never placed in the world top 10.

 

And on a final note, in 1992 Brian Laudrup was rated above these fine players:

 

• Dennis BERGKAMP (Netherlands)
  
• Frank RIJKAARD (Netherlands)
  
• Abedi AYEW PELÉ (Ghana)
  
• Franco BARESI (Italy)
  
• Jürgen KLINSMANN (Germany)
  

 

now that does say something.

[Scott7 5,156]

You've almost persuaded me, amms, then I think about Franco Baresi. Different style of defender with TB being more of a traditional centre half.

 

OK. I'm persuaded and I'm sure you're right about the 1988 season.

[Super_Ally 0]

Re-reading Gribz and BHs recent post threw up a question for me.

 

From previous interaction and looking at Gribz XI I know we have watched Rangers through a similar number of years.

 

Gribz names Gio in his XI. Now taking out the fact that many people don't like Barry Ferguson personally, but who was the most effective performer for Rangers at their peak? My memory would say Barry. What is also not obvious from Gribz post is whether Gio is selected as a CM or LM? Many of his midfield can play in different positions across the engine room. If it's as LM of course it's Gio. At CM I would say Barry.

 

Further still, did Gio get greater acclaim away from Scotland as a LB for Holland, Arsenal, Barca etc? If so, for me Numan is better there.

 

Edit: really interesting back and forth between the two of you.

[Ser Barristan Selmy 222]

Interesting observation and if you look at the European Footballer of the Year for the last 10 years the only European players to have won it as opposed to those plying their trade in Europe are Cannavaro and Ronaldo. I think this tends top prove that there is a BIG difference.

I don't really follow what you're saying there but Iniesta, Ribery, Nedved and Shevchenko have all won European player of the year in the past 10 years.

[BrahimHemdani 1]

I don't really follow what you're saying there but Iniesta, Ribery, Nedved and Shevchenko have all won European player of the year in the past 10 years.

 

You are correct; I was looking at the world list. Too many lists.

 

What I should have said is that in the last 20 years the World Player of the Year has been dominated by non-Europeans; the exceptions being the two I mentioned plus Zidane (3x), Baggio and Figo. Five out of the last six European players of the year have been non-Europeans, largely down to Messi. Looking back to 2003, I make it that 3-5 of the top ten players in Europe have been non-Europeans in each year; but I'm getting a bit punch drunk on this and need my dinner, so I'll stand to be corrected again.

Edited October 21, 2013 by BrahimHemdani
World Player of the Year

[the wasp 0]

I don't understand what team you think Denis Law wouldn't get into.

 

Please clarify.

 

As far back as I remember, A world select played England at Wembley back in the sixties,and Law, Baxter,and Kai Johansen(pre Rangers signing)were all in the world select team.