Ongoing new manager discussion and speculation

[calscot 0]

I think if you look at any manager that we could remotely employ and they will have successes and failures. And De Boer has had bigger success than anyone linked to us.

 

Funny how stats were unpopular and now we're saying 1 good long spell and 2 bad short spells make a bad manager. As with any stats, you have to look a bit deeper and make sure you know the qualitative aspect as well as the quantitative, even more when the sample size is so small.

 

For me, I think his far longer time at Ajax outshines his last two spells where he didn't get time or backing to adapt to completely different scenarios. However, at Rangers, he would have a similar situation to Ajax and so maybe that's his niche.

 

I can't see how it's so easy to rub out 4 league titles in a row.

[buster. 4,808]

I think if you look at any manager that we could remotely employ and they will have successes and failures. And De Boer has had bigger success than anyone linked to us.

 

Funny how stats were unpopular and now we're saying 1 good long spell and 2 bad short spells make a bad manager. As with any stats, you have to look a bit deeper and make sure you know the qualitative aspect as well as the quantitative, even more when the sample size is so small.

 

For me, I think his far longer time at Ajax outshines his last two spells where he didn't get time or backing to adapt to completely different scenarios. However, at Rangers, he would have a similar situation to Ajax and so maybe that's his niche.

 

I can't see how it's so easy to rub out 4 league titles in a row.

 

Forget stats.

 

A foreign coach who when he went abroad, couldn't adapt quickly enough in pressurised enviroments and very quickly got the boot,...twice.

 

If there was a criteria for not making an appointment, De Boer matches an important part of it.

Edited December 13, 2017 by buster.

[Uilleam 5,410]

If Caixinha had problems with some players, then I suspect that you could double that number for Frank de Boer....

....and that is not a criticism of him.

[pete 2,499]

I think if you look at any manager that we could remotely employ and they will have successes and failures. And De Boer has had bigger success than anyone linked to us.

 

Funny how stats were unpopular and now we're saying 1 good long spell and 2 bad short spells make a bad manager. As with any stats, you have to look a bit deeper and make sure you know the qualitative aspect as well as the quantitative, even more when the sample size is so small.

 

For me, I think his far longer time at Ajax outshines his last two spells where he didn't get time or backing to adapt to completely different scenarios. However, at Rangers, he would have a similar situation to Ajax and so maybe that's his niche.

 

I can't see how it's so easy to rub out 4 league titles in a row.

 

The time he got at CP was ridicules. My choice would still be Henk ten Cate his team Al Jazira are playing Real Madrid in the world team cup final on Saturday. I doubt we are going to get any manager in where they have no say in transfers. I have never heard of anything so stupid in my life. Although if I think of Pena and Herrera maybe it is not so stupid.

[calscot 0]

Forget stats.

A foreign coach who when he went abroad, couldn't adapt quickly enough in pressurised enviroments and got the boot,...twice.

 

There is absolutely no discussion of potential managers that isn't based on stats. That includes your "couldn't adapt quickly enough" - for which you will probably need his results stats. You even explicitly give a stat: "got the boot,...twice".

 

If there was a criteria for not making an appointment, De Boer matches an important part of it.

 

And winning League titles is not important?

 

McInnes was sacked by Bristol City, so how come he was approached?

 

The irony with De Boer is that if he wasn't sacked twice, we wouldn't be able to get him, and that kind of demonstrates our problem a bit like Groucho Marx: We don't care to hire a manager that would have us as an employer.

[buster. 4,808]

There is absolutely no discussion of potential managers that isn't based on stats. That includes your "couldn't adapt quickly enough" - for which you will probably need his results stats. You even explicitly give a stat: "got the boot,...twice".

 

 

 

And winning League titles is not important?

 

McInnes was sacked by Bristol City, so how come he was approached?

 

The irony with De Boer is that if he wasn't sacked twice, we wouldn't be able to get him, and that kind of demonstrates our problem a bit like Groucho Marx: We don't care to hire a manager that would have us as an employer.

 

It's all about what those in charge judge what to be the required criteria at this moment in time....and it's been made fairly clear that someone like De Boer wasn't being considered and if you look at his recent history, it would be CRAZY to think about De Boer.

 

McInnes was identified with some of the following in mind.

Stability

Consistency of results

Squad building with results outweighing budget

In depth knowledge of Scottish League and specific challenge

European quaifier experience

Knowledge of club

Media relations

 

Bonus / Weaken rival

[Oleg_Mcnoleg 50]

It's all about what those in charge judge what to be the required criteria at this moment in time....and it's been made fairly clear that someone like De Boer wasn't being considered and if you look at his recent history, it would be CRAZY to think about De Boer.

 

McInnes was identified with some of the following in mind.

Stability

Consistency of results

Squad building with results outweighing budget

In depth knowledge of Scottish League and specific challenge

European quaifier experience

Knowledge of club

Media relations

 

Bonus / Weaken rival

 

The argument I've heard made about RdB from those who know more about Dutch football than me is that he's struggled outside the clear structure that Ajax have. There he had collection of players who were used to doing things in a way he recognised and could work with. Outside that established way of working, he's found it difficult to get his ideas across. On that basis, unless he's learnt to be more pragmatic, he might struggle to make an immediate impact. Either that, or we'll have to learn to be patient whilst the entire squad complete PhDs in Rinus Michels Studies.

I'd add that, of late, Dutch managers have stunk, wherever they've been.

Edited December 13, 2017 by Oleg_Mcnoleg

[Darthter 542]

The time he got at CP was ridicules. My choice would still be Henk ten Cate his team Al Jazira are playing Real Madrid in the world team cup final on Saturday. I doubt we are going to get any manager in where they have no say in transfers. I have never heard of anything so stupid in my life. Although if I think of Pena and Herrera maybe it is not so stupid.

 

Where did you get that from???

 

Any Manager must be involved in player selection. I know Murty talked about the "recruitment team", but I think that simply refers to scouts & analysts etc.

This is how I see player recruitment being handled:

1. Manager notifies DoF about specific player requirements - position etc. Also player characteristics - pacey, distribution, leadership etc

2. DoF instructs scouts & analysts to find x-number of players that match the managers criteria

3. DoF presents list to manager for discussion.

4. Manager prioritises the list or bins it.

5. List if passed back to DoF & negotiations being.

 

Essentially the leg/donkey work & contract negotiations are being done by other people, leaving the manager to focus on the team.

[buster. 4,808]

The argument I've heard made about RdB from those who know more about Dutch football than me is that he's struggled outside the clear structure that Ajax have. There he had collection of players who were used to doing things in a way he recognised and could work with. Outside that established way of working, he's found it difficult to get his ideas across. On that basis, unless he's learnt to be more pragmatic, he might struggle to make an immediate impact. Either that, or we'll have to learn to be patient whilst the entire squad complete PhDs in Rinus Michels Studies.

I'd add that, of late, Dutch managers have stunk, wherever they've been.

 

Players coming through at Ajax (and much of their media) will still have a healthy respect for what De Beor has done in the game.

 

Rich young players in Italy and England who wouldn't seen much of him as a player and may not be too patient when De Boer is trying to change their ways in that Dutch style that tends to come accross as authorative/arrogant. That Dutch style (eg. Van Gaal had it in spades) is probably more difficult to use in todays generally 'softer' enviroment.

[pete 2,499]

The argument I've heard made about RdB from those who know more about Dutch football than me is that he's struggled outside the clear structure that Ajax have. There he had collection of players who were used to doing things in a way he recognised and could work with. Outside that established way of working, he's found it difficult to get his ideas across. On that basis, unless he's learnt to be more pragmatic, he might struggle to make an immediate impact. Either that, or we'll have to learn to be patient whilst the entire squad complete PhDs in Rinus Michels Studies.

I'd add that, of late, Dutch managers have stunk, wherever they've been.

 

De Boer is actually a more defensive manager than the most Dutch managers.

What happened at Inter was he was brought in to bring a better type of football the club said they wanted to follow. Inter is a team with many older players and he came against the old problem, you can't teach an old dog new tricks and he couldn't get the dressing room to follow his vision. Chrystal Palace was never a good choice. You cannot make flat racehorses jump fences. Palace just never had the players to play his style of football and he never got the time to change things. In today's age Manu would have sacked Fergie at the beginning and missed out on the best trainer they ever had.