The Art of Protest

[maineflyer 0]

There are worse people than Murray out there. What are the plans to ensure that we don't end up with one of them?

And there are also much better.

[maineflyer 0]

We all know it is time for a change but, lets be realistic

That's right, let's just settle back for another ten years of Murray. And since you like to deal in specifics, perhaps you'll tell me how many championships you think we'll win in that period? Now remember, when doing your calculations, we've won 2 out of the last eight and none out of the last three. Perhaps that particular brand of is realism isn't quite what you meant though......?

[craig 5,195]

That's right, let's just settle back for another ten years of Murray. And since you like to deal in specifics, perhaps you'll tell me how many championships you think we'll win in that period? Now remember, when doing your calculations, we've won 2 out of the last eight and none out of the last three. Perhaps that particular brand of is realism isn't quite what you meant though......?

 

Statistics can be used to determine what we want. We can look at the last 1, 2, 3, 5, 10 or 20 years - or longer.

 

The detractors of Murray will look at the last 7 years. The pro-Murray will look since the start of his tenure.

 

Personally I think both have merit - but he has won more than 50% of the leagues in his tenure (only using statistics - I am not saying I think he has been great for the club).

 

More recently we have fallen behind them because they have improved their lot off the field and our eye has been off the ball.

 

The recent stats are more relevant but lets not completely ignore his full tenure.

[Bluedell 5,329]

And there are also much better.

Of course, but is there an answer to the question?

[maineflyer 0]

Statistics can be used to determine what we want. We can look at the last 1, 2, 3, 5, 10 or 20 years - or longer.

 

The detractors of Murray will look at the last 7 years. The pro-Murray will look since the start of his tenure.

 

Personally I think both have merit - but he has won more than 50% of the leagues in his tenure (only using statistics - I am not saying I think he has been great for the club).

 

More recently we have fallen behind them because they have improved their lot off the field and our eye has been off the ball.

 

The recent stats are more relevant but lets not completely ignore his full tenure.

That's just not true. I can't speak for you but my eye has never been off the ball, not for a minute. But someone most definitely has had his eye off that ball and it doesn't take a genius to figure out who. Perhaps eye off the ball is a euphemism for failure but I think it's better to face the facts than confuse the issues.

 

And if someone was in charge when we won 11 out of 12 titles but that proud record then fell to 2 last gasp titles out of 8, I just might discern a pattern crying out to be recognised.

 

Maybe you think it's just bad luck and things will turn again - but somehow I don't think you do. Because you know as I do the the building blocks of NIAR were in place before Murray arrived at this club. And when years of neglect finally saw that team run completely out of steam in the latter years, the Great Leader only had two answers. One was bonkers spending and the other has failed completely to compete with celtic, which is the ball my eye is on.

[maineflyer 0]

Of course, but is there an answer to the question?

The answer is that you are so afraid of disaster that you're prepared to settle for long term mediocrity, which is what we all know we have now. You ask questions that only a prospective buyer could or should answer and then use the lack of response as a sign of waekness in the arguement for change. Nice trick but no cigar.

[craig 5,195]

That's just not true. I can't speak for you but my eye has never been off the ball, not for a minute. But someone most definitely has had his eye off that ball and it doesn't take a genius to figure out who. Perhaps eye off the ball is a euphemism for failure but I think it's better to face the facts than confuse the issues.

 

Perhaps I should have clarified when I said "we" took our eye off the ball - I didnt mean we as in you, me or the fanbase but the men in power. Of that there can be no denying. Since the turn of the millenium I dont thing it could be disputed - 2 our of 8 titles is failure in my eyes.

 

And if someone was in charge when we won 11 out of 12 titles but that proud record then fell to 2 last gasp titles out of 8, I just might discern a pattern crying out to be recognised.

 

Again, I dont disagree - my point was that you can use statistics to prove ANY point. Detractors of SDM will use the last 8 years whilst pro-SDM followers will use his full tenure. I personally would use his full tenure to judge his results (from a trophy perspective) but it is VERY worrying where we have been in the last 8 years.

 

However, at least in my opinion, we shouldn't be focussing SOLELY on the lack of silverware but also on how far we have gone backwards in terms of the club in general - youth policy, academy, production of players from Murray Park, financial mismanagement.

 

Maybe you think it's just bad luck and things will turn again - but somehow I don't think you do. Because you know as I do the the building blocks of NIAR were in place before Murray arrived at this club. And when years of neglect finally saw that team run completely out of steam in the latter years, the Great Leader only had two answers. One was bonkers spending and the other has failed completely to compete with celtic, which is the ball my eye is on.

 

I dont think it is bad luck at all - and, in actual fact, it could be easily justified that but for GOOD luck we would be staring down the barrel of a Celtic team (and a POOR one at that) looking at an EIGHT in a row.

 

I just so happen to think that regardless of what we may think of Celtic (and I still think they are a poor team - we have a better team than they do in my opinion - I am obviously biased) that off the field they have been forward thinking and progressed whilst we have actually regressed.

 

I think you and I agree on much more than either of us are letting on.....

[maineflyer 0]

Perhaps I should have clarified when I said "we" took our eye off the ball - I didnt mean we as in you, me or the fanbase but the men in power. Of that there can be no denying. Since the turn of the millenium I dont thing it could be disputed - 2 our of 8 titles is failure in my eyes.

 

 

 

Again, I dont disagree - my point was that you can use statistics to prove ANY point. Detractors of SDM will use the last 8 years whilst pro-SDM followers will use his full tenure. I personally would use his full tenure to judge his results (from a trophy perspective) but it is VERY worrying where we have been in the last 8 years.

 

However, at least in my opinion, we shouldn't be focussing SOLELY on the lack of silverware but also on how far we have gone backwards in terms of the club in general - youth policy, academy, production of players from Murray Park, financial mismanagement.

 

 

 

I dont think it is bad luck at all - and, in actual fact, it could be easily justified that but for GOOD luck we would be staring down the barrel of a Celtic team (and a POOR one at that) looking at an EIGHT in a row.

 

I just so happen to think that regardless of what we may think of Celtic (and I still think they are a poor team - we have a better team than they do in my opinion - I am obviously biased) that off the field they have been forward thinking and progressed whilst we have actually regressed.

 

I think you and I agree on much more than either of us are letting on.....

Well I wouldn't argue with a single word you say here. I especially agree that the playing side is only part of the problem and the structural weakness of the club is almost desperate. Guardian, some guardian.

[ian1964 10,413]

It does make you wonder if SDM has got wind of some sort of protest planned for Saturday,as has been floating about on other forums,that has instigated the signing of these players this week as a way of making any planned protest look a bit silly and defflecting some of the shit that may have been heading his way.Maybe that's a bit negative thinking from me,but why all the signings now ?,if these signings had been made earlier would we still be in europe ?,or is it simply the fact that Carlos was sold and freed up some cash ?,who knows.At least we have made some decent signings,time will tell of course,but things certainly look a bit better for the season ahead.Domestic treble this season ?,every chance as we are looking so much stronger now compared to a couple of weeks ago,so this bear will be having a wee wager on the treble.

[Bluedell 5,329]

The answer is that you are so afraid of disaster that you're prepared to settle for long term mediocrity, which is what we all know we have now. You ask questions that only a prospective buyer could or should answer and then use the lack of response as a sign of waekness in the arguement for change. Nice trick but no cigar.

That's not actually an answer to my question.

 

I didn't get an answer and asked for one and then you start putting words in my mouth. Where have I used the lack of response as a sign of weakness? All I'm doing is asking a question. Are they not to be encouraged?

 

I guess because I asked one you didn't like you have to start with the personal insults by saying I'm prepared to settle for mediocrity.

 

I'd have thought you would be trying to encourage people to join rather than having a go at them as soon as they make an enquiry.