craig 5,199 Posted September 13, 2008 Share Posted September 13, 2008 Very interesting point of view Craig. I suppose patriotism means different things to different people. What is your definition? The dictionary would suggest it is a love of and loyalty to a country. I can see how you can fondly remember mostly the good things about your country if you leave it behind, and promote them to new friends and colleagues in the country you choose to reside in. But that is not patriotism any more than sticking up for a particular bank, or brand of trainers, or football club. I dont see how it can be patriotic to leave your country behind because of tax and bad weather. I would go so far as to say that if you choose to leave the country to pursue your own interests, you cannot claim to be patriotic to that country as you have chosen to leave it behind. What is it about Scotland that you are patriotic about? Not having a go at your personal choices to go and live in Bermuda instead of Barmulloch, but surely you cannot have it all ways? To start with, cracking thing to be debating ! As succinctly as possible, leaving the tax regime behind and leaving the weather behind can't in my opinion make me less patriotic to my country. Does everyone that live at home like the high tax rates ? NO - the only difference between them and me (and Gribz and countless other ex-pats) is that we chose to escape it. I don't see how that makes us less loving to our country. And as for loyalty I doubt that many would refuse to trade the tax rates in the UK for abroad. I don't think that people are "loyal" to the tax rate, they suffer it. The same could be said for many of the other complaints I made. But it doesn't make any of us less patriotic simply because we aren't living there. I will always be Scottish, will always be proud of it, proud of the heritage, proud of our forefathers, ancestors and the history of our very proud nation. I for one simply don't see the correlation that one has to be present in the country to be patriotic. The logic of that argument is beyond me, sorry ! And as for the Billy Connolly and Connery comments, I couldn't agree more. In actual fact I have taken the stance to NOT vote in elections whilst residing outside te country as I don't feel right trying to select a government that, right now doesn't govern me ! And Tannochside - no worries, I understand you aren't having a go at my choice to live here - as I said, this is a good topic of debate. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gisabeer 409 Posted September 13, 2008 Share Posted September 13, 2008 Very interesting point of view Craig. I suppose patriotism means different things to different people. What is your definition? The dictionary would suggest it is a love of and loyalty to a country. I can see how you can fondly remember mostly the good things about your country if you leave it behind, and promote them to new friends and colleagues in the country you choose to reside in. But that is not patriotism any more than sticking up for a particular bank, or brand of trainers, or football club. I dont see how it can be patriotic to leave your country behind because of tax and bad weather. I would go so far as to say that if you choose to leave the country to pursue your own interests, you cannot claim to be patriotic to that country as you have chosen to leave it behind. What is it about Scotland that you are patriotic about? Not having a go at your personal choices to go and live in Bermuda instead of Barmulloch, but surely you cannot have it all ways? biggest bag of shite ive read in years. Doesnt matter where you live, you can take the boy out of scotland but you cant take the scotland out of the boy. By the same token, is he less of a Rangers fan too for living abroad?. or maybe you want him to jet in for every home game. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gribz 743 Posted September 13, 2008 Share Posted September 13, 2008 To start with, cracking thing to be debating ! As succinctly as possible, leaving the tax regime behind and leaving the weather behind can't in my opinion make me less patriotic to my country. Does everyone that live at home like the high tax rates ? NO - the only difference between them and me (and Gribz and countless other ex-pats) is that we chose to escape it. I don't see how that makes us less loving to our country. And as for loyalty I doubt that many would refuse to trade the tax rates in the UK for abroad. I don't think that people are "loyal" to the tax rate, they suffer it. The same could be said for many of the other complaints I made. But it doesn't make any of us less patriotic simply because we aren't living there. I will always be Scottish, will always be proud of it, proud of the heritage, proud of our forefathers, ancestors and the history of our very proud nation. I for one simply don't see the correlation that one has to be present in the country to be patriotic. The logic of that argument is beyond me, sorry ! And as for the Billy Connolly and Connery comments, I couldn't agree more. In actual fact I have taken the stance to NOT vote in elections whilst residing outside te country as I don't feel right trying to select a government that, right now doesn't govern me ! And Tannochside - no worries, I understand you aren't having a go at my choice to live here - as I said, this is a good topic of debate. Yip your spot on Craig, as I said should every Rangers fan live in Glasgow and every Man Utd fan live in Manchester?? Just because an opportunity came knocking our way to improve the 'Scottish Company" that employ us we set our sights higher to broaden our surroundings and tried living in other parts of the world. That no way suggests we moved from our country due to not being patriotic or for not liking our country. There are quite a lot of things id change about the UK as a whole for the better - 1 obviously being the tax system(s) which are ridiculous. The weather has got buggar all to do with anything, i actually miss cold days quite a lot seen as dont get any, so that argument is out the window. If you go to Perth Australia its like a mini Scotland, someone quoted me the figure of 150,000 Scots in that city alone which is around the same as Dundee - I dont think its that actually that high but its certainly a 5 figure amount. As for voting - well thats another topic. For me it doesnt matter who governs as the government always get in...the people we see as running the country are mere puppets who are being told what to do by a higher regeime/elite. If we really had democracy we would have an option on the voting slip for 'none of the above'. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluedell 5,356 Posted September 13, 2008 Share Posted September 13, 2008 the people we see as running the country are mere puppets who are being told what to do by a higher regeime/elite. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
calscot 0 Posted September 13, 2008 Share Posted September 13, 2008 its the reason why the whole world abandoned them - they're musically crippled. bagpipes are whiney and horrible. Apart from being factually incorrect, I don't think you've attempted to understand what bagpipes are about. I remember hearing Flower of Scotland played at the World Cup by a brass band and it was cringeworthy - you could hardly hear it and it was just so bland with no "oomph". Bagpipes pierce the air and are THE best instrument in the world for filling a stadium with music without any amplification. Not only that, it can be a very soulful instrument which makes it very popular for a lament at a funeral - in many countries around the world. I can imagine it was also top of the league as an instrument for marching into battle. It's not an instrument for listening to music to relax to or bop to, but there is a much bigger scope for music and it's instruments than just top of the bloody pops... 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
calscot 0 Posted September 13, 2008 Share Posted September 13, 2008 BTW I think blokes who mock the kilt and call it a "skirt" always seem to me like they have some issues. It comes across like they were forced to wear skirts and dresses as a child or something... 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tannochsidebear 2,322 Posted September 14, 2008 Author Share Posted September 14, 2008 A great array of responses since my last post in this thread. I got the exact response I thought I would from the ex-pats, that it doesn't matter how long they have been away or why they decided to move away, they are all still patriotic Scots. Well sorry guys, but that just will not wash with us who pay our way in this country. Remembering that the definition of Patriotic is loyalty, where is the loyalty in buggering off to avoid paying your taxes? As I said before I can understand the old "absence makes the heart grow fonder" line and I would definately concede that I am probably too close to appreciate all the finer points of Scotland as I was born, raised and educated, and have always lived and worked here, but I can certainly claim to be a more patriotic Scot because I choose to live here and pay my taxes and try to make a difference here. You are not contributing anything to your country by staying away and out of the tax system, and that again is a valid and completely defendable point. I understand that you feel proud of your roots, and actively retain a sense of Scottishness instead of integrating to the country of your residence, but that is just being proud of your family origin, not your country. If it wasn't for the Rangers, would you even bother with this country at all, now that you have settled into another way of life in another culture? I regularly go off for the weekend or a day trip to see more of our beautiful country and contribute to the local economy of these locations, and therefore I get to believe that we have something special here, and reinforces my desire to stay loyal to and patriotic about my country. The Wallace monument, Loch Lomond shores, the Ayrshire coastal towns, the beautiful Stirlingshire hills and small towns, the lovely Aviemore resort and surrounding area, the Stonehaven fireballs at new year, all fantastic uniquely Scottish places of interest that are lost to you all to save a few quid in tax. As proud of Scotland and its heritage and history and achievements as I am, I'm sure you are, but patriotic about Scotland, no chance!! 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tannochsidebear 2,322 Posted September 14, 2008 Author Share Posted September 14, 2008 BTW I think blokes who mock the kilt and call it a "skirt" always seem to me like they have some issues. It comes across like they were forced to wear skirts and dresses as a child or something... It couldn't be just because IT IS a skirt, could it? I have always thought blokes who stick up for the skirt to have issues, like they really want to dress up in skirts and dresses, and maybe not just as a child.... 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
calscot 0 Posted September 15, 2008 Share Posted September 15, 2008 Seems to me that throughout history and round the world there are many male garments that are not trousers. Clothes are after all just garments to cover the body and are almost arbitrarily gender assigned. The kilt is obviously gender assigned to men and I find it strange that you think anything that does not agree with the recent Western convention of men wearing trousers, as feminine. I think it's obvious you have issues when you are afraid of male attire because you think it could be mistaken for women's clothing even when few knowledgeable people would make that mistake. And I doubt many blokes who enjoy dressing as a woman would choose to wear a kilt to fulfil their fantasies. Perhaps you need to relax and find more confidence in your own masculinity - and Scottishness... You seem to be trying far too hard to show how you are more Scottish and more manly than everyone else. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmck 117 Posted September 15, 2008 Share Posted September 15, 2008 Seems to me that throughout history and round the world there are many male garments that are not trousers. Clothes are after all just garments to cover the body and are almost arbitrarily gender assigned. The kilt is obviously gender assigned to men and I find it strange that you think anything that does not agree with the recent Western convention of men wearing trousers, as feminine. I think it's obvious you have issues when you are afraid of male attire because you think it could be mistaken for women's clothing even when few knowledgeable people would make that mistake. And I doubt many blokes who enjoy dressing as a woman would choose to wear a kilt to fulfil their fantasies. Perhaps you need to relax and find more confidence in your own masculinity - and Scottishness... You seem to be trying far too hard to show how you are more Scottish and more manly than everyone else. this is just utter pish. make your point with out petty amateur psychology. address the arguments, not the person. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.