Bluedell

The season ticket money can't be claimed by creditors. What a lot of crap.

Not sure if it was specifically aimed at me, but FWIW, I don't think the term applies to those making the argument here. Who should apologise? Green? Whoever it is has absolutely no influence over the administration and has personally nothing to apologise for. Any such apology seems meaningless and pointless and presumably would be seen as such by most of those at whom it is aimed. We'll need to agree to disagree on this.

So does Andy Kerr disagree with the statement from RFFF? I wonder if Mark Dingwall does as well given he was behind not renewing earlier in the week. What about collective responsibility?

I don't think he goes as far as to say that.

Who needs a share when they can vote on the new name for Murray Park?

It doesn't have to sit right. I'm sure nobody is entirely happy with it, bit it is what it is. Self-flagellation was mentioned in the OP. Do we have to do that to make ourselves feel right? Personally I don't think so. It was one person who deliberately set out to put us into administration and even in retrospect there's little or nothing that we could have done about it. It's not right, it shouldn't have happened but he's gone and we need to carry on. We need to move on. If someone want to apologise for Whyte's actions, then fine. Does it help? No. If we as a club want to meet some of the shortfall of our creditors in the future then great. That's at least something positive but I doubt our new owners will be interested in it. I still don't see any reason why we need to go down to division 3. It won't make me feel better about what has happened. It doesn't punish Whyte. It's not going to prevent future administrations. It only seems to be to satisfy a lot of hysterical fans of other clubs and a few bears who want us further punished for self-flagellation reasons.

Yes, nit-picking. We didn't pay our debts, which included HMRC. Agreed it was not the big tax case, of which we have still not been found guilty

OK, so you believe that everybody who enters administration should get relegated down to division 3, and not not just suffer the current 10 points deduction? Fair enough, although it seems excessive to me. However we don't make the rules and the rules are the 10 points deduction. They apply to everyone.

Amms, I've got sypmathy with your view, while not totally agreeing with it. So what have we as a club done wrong? Gone into administration because we didn't pay our debts and we have been punished for that with the 10 point penalty. We have then had to form a newco because a creditor took a strange stance and decided to go for a lower payout. That's not our fault and I don't see why we should be punished for it. The club still exists. What difference is it that we are a newco? Celtic moved their club from one company to another, although the company that holds the SPL share is admittedly (presumably) unchanged. Does the fact that we ahve moved from one corporate company to anotehr mean that we deserve to be punished? To me it's much of an irrelevance and who REALLY cares? There's a lot of mock anguish but 99% of those who are now up in arms wouldn't know a company number from a cpi rate. Could any of them tell you definitively whether Dundee or Motherwell's corporate structures changed post-administration? I just fail to see what we should be getting punished for.

Thanks. Didn't know they even had a website.

So why the big secret about who the actual members are?

Whyte didn't pay our tax. It seems wrong to punish the cliub to that extent for the actions of one man over a 9 month period. At least the club in the shape of the now former directors questioned Whyte's takeover but the SFA ignored these warnings, stood back and did nothing. The club in the shape of the fans asked plenty of pertinent questions to Whyte and were lied to. I fail to see why the club has to suffer more thsan it has done for the actions of one man over a 9 month period when the club tried to do something about it.

I think that this says as much about Brown as it does about the bid.

Who exactly is on the RFFF committee? Why have they suddenly become our representatives at all these meetings instead of one of the main bodies? Given their pathetic statements they should be allowing someone else to attend, although perhaps criticism will again prompt more information.

I thought we hadn't been found guilty of the doing the EBT scheme incorrectly yet. What has happened to the concept of innocent until proven guilty?

Is there a buyer out there that doesn't want our money? Would McColl and Park be relaxed about season ticket cash not flowing in?

1 Aug 2010 A FIRM run by two millionaire property developers has gone bust - owing the taxman £78,000. Allan Stewart and Steve McKenna's empire once boasted a turnover of £134million a year. And the pair's charity work has been supported by Tony Blair, Bill Clinton, Al Gore and Goldie Hawn. But we told in May how one of their companies, Stewart & McKenna Ltd, was taken to court over a tax bill. And the firm has now been put into liquidation after the cash was unpaid. Last week insolvency experts Buchanan Roxburgh were appointed as the liquidators. Stewart & McKenna Ltd was the first company the two men set up, in 2005. Since then the duo, whose HQ is in Cambuslang, near Glasgow, have formed more than 20 firms. In an interview in 2007, the partners claimed they had made £134million the previous year after selling 14,000 flats worldwide. Last month Labour Party donors Stewart and McKenna said they had given shamed former Glasgow City Council leader Steven Purcell a job with their charity, which has built orphanages in Russia, Indonesia and Africa. The property developers have previously denied that their empire is in trouble. The Sunday Mail tried to contact Stewart and McKenna yesterday but they did not return our calls. A Buchanan Roxburgh spokesman said: "We would appeal to any creditors to contact us."

3 July 2010 Two businessmen who have given former council leader Steven Purcell a post with their charity are at the centre of a row over a £1.7 million land deal. It emerged yesterday Allan Stewart and Stephen McKenna have given Purcell the role. They denied this was “payback” for the *council paying one of their firms for land needed for the *Commonwealth Games. However the Sunday Herald can reveal that after the council backed the deal a Stewart & McKenna company gave £5000 to the Labour party. Stewart also donated £4100 to his local Labour branch in East Kilbride. According to the Electoral Commission, the pair made no donations before the land sale. On November 10, 2006, Glasgow’s Executive Committee approved a £1.7m payment to Stewart & McKenna (Dalmarnock) Ltd for a plot of land in the East End, £350,000 more than the firm had paid for it a year earlier. It was “not originally considered to be required,” a council report said. But after advice from Games consultants, it was deemed “central” to the event. On 30 November 2006, the East Kilbride Labour party accepted £4,100 from Allan Stewart. Five months later, Scottish Labour took £5,000 from Stewart & McKenna Ltd. Stephen McKenna told the Sunday Herald Purcell would not be paid for his work for the pair’s charity, the Stewart & McKenna Foundation, and denied any connection between the land deal and donations to Labour. Steven Purcell could not be contacted yesterday.

Don't know why the company name change hasn't been processed yet. There's no reason why it could not have been done by now, despite what Companies House say.

Corroborated by who?

What were his options? Not sending out renewals? Surely that would not have helped. The club needs the season ticket money. It always has (well for the past 25 years). It always will. To think that the club under any owner would not be desperate for season ticket money is laughable. However because Green is trying to improve the club's cashflow, you're describing it as desperation. That's certainly a negative way to spin it. However what it is is just cashflow for the club, pure and simple. Everyone agrees that the best thing for the club should be that it is able to stand on its own two feet and should not require outside finance, but when someone is trying to do that, there are all these fans coming out and trying to disrupt it, putting negative spin on it and coming out with a lot of innuendo. It's all a bit wearing.

Yeah, RM have a cheek given it's their fault we have to suffer Gunslinger!

You definitely have a point, Johnny. There should be more and better communication. One thing I would say is that I'm not sure that it's correct to say most fans are against Green. A fair chunk of FF are against him, but I've not seen signs of it elsewhere, either on-line or from the guys who don't go onto the forums.

I'm sure that the SFA have a copy of Keane's contract. As for any arrangements Keane has with third parties (perhaps with non-UK parties for services performed outside the UK) then no, there is no legal way of trying to find out what they are.

Playing devil's advocate: There have been statements including one yesterday. The club have asked for season tickets to be renewed. They have understandably put non-renewals on hold until after the vote. They have not come out and said what will happen if we do get demoted because they can't anticipate all the different scenarios and wouldn't want to be seen to planning for them at this point as it makes a no vote that bit easier. What bad news? Much of it may be spin and do we want the club reacting to every bit of spin that mischief makers put out there? We don't know if the bank account story is true. It's just something that one poster has put out there and it's been taken as gospel. Do people really believe that we will be getting £30m? Putting that to one side, if there are investors, they will also be waiting to see what happens with the vote. Adjustments would be made there as well. I do think that there should be more communication but the lack of it does not necessarily mean a lack of desire to take us forward. The vote has created a limbo, and surely there has to be a lot of work going on in the background.