maineflyer

Until he arrived at Ibrox, I knew little about Lee McCulloch. Now I can see he is a clumsy, ill-balanced footballer with poor touch, poor passing and an almost absent scoring record. I'm entirely ambivalent where he plays in the team because he simply doesn't possess the basic abilities required to succeed in any position. He would be amongst the first two players I would ship out as soon as possibe - and in the meantime I wouldn't have them anywhere near the first team.

Of course you're right and it's up to them what stance they take. But john Greig holds a rather special status at the club and it was given to him by the fans he now chooses not to associate himself with. Everyone might not agree but in my opinion that amounts to something approaching betrayal.

Unfortunately, I think that is exactly the mentality within the ranks at Ibrox and it all comes from the lack of ambition displayed by the leadership, both in the dressing room and the boardroom.

The recent post by CammyF got me thinking about our Greatest Ever Ranger. John Greig was my absolute hero when I was a boy and teenager. He was a wonderful, fantastic player and captain. The ultimate Rangers captain. I thought the world of him. Mr Rangers. Perhaps he didn't get the chance to learn the management job and that's not his fault but he was a whole lot less successful as a manager. He didn't have the players, the money or the experience. However, as a director, John Greig seems to have turned from hero to zero. Fair enough if the directorship is simply a gesture to a club legend but for his part, he has allowed a whole lot of shit to happen without ever uttering a word of concern. In fact, I find in recent years that I've lost all of my erstwhile respect for Greig. A man like him, who has played under Symon, Waddell and Wallace must have little excuse for participating in the mismanaged decline in Rangers fortunes these last ten years or so. The treatment of fans at Ibrox, the attitude of the club to the treatment of fans away in Europe, the continual false promises to sell season tickets, and so on are all issues that Greig could and should have taken a position on, even if it meant losing his directorship - especially if it meant losing his directorship. Instead, it seems to me he has buried his head in the sand, protected his own self-interest, and buttoned his lip. Such a waste, such a disappointment.

If Rangers are not already looking at this kind of thing then I think you can safely take it that it will never happen. If they are and it still hasn't happened then I think you can again take it that it will never happen. Perhaps you assuming new ownership in the near future?

Please Walter, stop making a complete arse of yourself and stop patronising the fans as if we were entirely clueless. Are you the same manager who said after being knocked out by Kaunas that you had "seen it coming" but had done nothing about it. Pity your appetite hadn't been whetted then, eh? Clown.

But do we actually have those wide players? On balance, the evidence so far this season is that we probably don't.

Listening to Smith complimenting Lafferty on his work playing alone up front against Milan, I couldn't help thinking that this will be his preferred option against sellick next week. In fact I think Smith would find it easier to pull his own teeth than adopt a reasonably attacking posture against an increasingly impotent sellick. Which is a shame.

Bunch of middle class nancy boys. Where did you pansies go in the old days when Rangers fans were somewhat less limp-wristed at the thought of a bit of blood? Talking of which reminds me of the time I slid (unintentionally) down the length of the slope at the back of the old Beach End at Pittawdrie and removed the greater part of my jeans from a very skint arse.

This'll be the same UNICEF that recently sought assurances from Rangers that it will crack down on supporters singing the Famine Song at matches. And also hoped we wouldn't be using any references to BJK in future? They seem to like the money after all, contaminated as it is with Rangers bigotry.

That has to be the conclusion, Cammy. It looks like we are entering another phase of downsizing, even more dramatic that the beginning of the McLeish years. If we win this league campaign, Murray will get away with it. If we don't then all hell will break loose and it could be chaos. If Rangers fans want to influence the direction ahead, they really need to delay any uptake of season tickets. Better still, just don't renew - amazingly, with the exception of OF games, it is perfectly possible to watch Rangers every week without a season ticket. No, it's true.

In his prime, Andy Goram was the best goalkeeper I've ever seen, in any team, anywhere. Like Stephan Klos, Chris Woods was also a good keeper but he just wasn't in Goram's league.

So, what is your point here? Never do anything in case someone somewhere doesn't like it? Should we just come out and ask our enemies what part of our heritage they are prepared to allow us to keep? You've made your position clear on this several times already, having obviously bought into the whole fear thing hook, line and sinker. Why are you so afraid of a campaign against us - don't you realise there has been and continues to be a highly-active campaign against all things Rangers for many years. Just for once, shouldn't it be about what WE wish to campaign for? Or have you also bought into the perpetual victimhood syndrome?

Thanks, I think you make an excellent point here.

The one I'm following, although I won't pretend to claim it as my own. Engage with other fans/websites, raise awareness, spread the message, provide information, solicit opinion, take a view on the words, sing the song. Without leadership or a focal point for supporters, what else can any of us do? It's just one more issue that reminds me how much we've been let down by the internal poilitcking at the RST. The only alternative is to talk and do nothing. The reason for posting the OP was to try to gauge whether sharing some information would result in positive support.

You know as well as I do that there are no guarantees in this or anything else we do. You probably also know that no one involved is interested in being gung ho about this. In the end, however, it is a value judgement. I'm glad, but not surprised, you feel the way you do about this. It is very important though, not to dwell only on possible negative outcomes - that's the recipe for ensuring nothing ever happens.

The song in the article I posted is NOT the proposed alternative. It is a long-standing Rangers song that was put forward to test the club's position, sharing as it does some common lyrics. Also as you can see from the article, the club is not interested in clarifying anything. There will be on clarification - start from there.

FFS Frankie, stop this. This isn't a competition for composers. It's not about how to change the song beyond recognition and achieve nothing at all. It's about putting our balls back between our legs (ladies excepted) and climbing over the barricade of bullshit that has been built around us in so many ways these last few years. If we are going to suck in air and shake our heads every time someone starts to challenge these lies, how are we ever going to reverse the tide. Stop being so afraid - and stop taking refuge in endless analysis.

I can scarcely believe that McMillan isn't on that board. WTF is that all about?

Not unless we're in a whole lot deeper financial shit than is generally believed. If Walter Smith is going to spend years more or less ignoring youth development and then suddenly change his approach, I'm willing to bet it's not his decision. Kids and has-beens. Surely that's not the next stage in this long decline?

I understand exactly where you're coming from but how many of the same people sing TBB today? How many of them sing add ons to Derry's Walls? As Frankie rightly says, as long as the Feenyan word is left behind (and I think we could all live with that), there is no point agonising over any UEFA reaction - because there simply isn't going to be one. That much has surely become obvious. I think there is an excellent opportunity here to revive TBB and I think any supporter who "strays" will have the weight of the rest of the support to deal with, never mind police or stewards. Recent Edu Edu Edu chants have provided whatever proof was needed that the so-called banning of the tune was disingenious nonsense - lies. Beyond that, there is only one word that need be addressed. We all know this - supporters of almost every other club use the rest of TBB repertoire without let or hinderance. I have looked at this for a long time now and I have no doubts left that we have been well and truly stitched up where TBB is concerned. It's becoming clear that the club has been involved in some staggering deceptions and used these directly to manipulate supporter behaviour. There are others amongst the fanbase who are starting to campaign for the return of this song and consequently to address the con job perpetrated by our enemies with the compliance of the muppets running the club - AND with the conivance of certain prominent Rangers "supporters. The most common proposal that I have seen and probably the most sensible overall is as follows... Hello Hello, we are the Billy Boys Hello Hello, you'll know us by our noise We're up to the knees in Celtic blood Surrender and you'll die For we are the Rangers Billy Boys It's very difficult to get the balance right. So much of this song is iconic and to change or remove certain phrases would dislocate it from its heritage. For this reason, lines 1,2 and 4 simply cannot be changed. Line 3 is what all other clubs use and is probably as fundamental as anything else. I believe TBB is on the way back at last. Perhaps someone here has the definitive words in their head?

Although you obviously miss the point our friend is making, I think you have unintentionally stumbled on the core issue here. Perhaps you could close the loop and state exactly what ramifications are you referring to and why you assume they would be serious for Rangers.

Davie Weir?

Post Number Three Moving on, as Rangers were inferring that it was not their responsibility to determine which songs are unacceptable or not, I again contacted the SFA to get their stance on it. After a 6 month delay and me resending the original letter (everything I send is recorded delivery, so I know they received the first one), I finally got a reply. It was no surprise to me that they completely avoided the question with regards to TBB, and only commented on the issue with (We are the people). Their response was as follows. “It is not our policy to look at individual songs and say whether or not they fall within the new ‘Unacceptable Conduct’ rules as clearly there are songs which may be unacceptable to some and not to others, and others that can simply have words added making them fall into the category. Supporters in any doubt as to what is and what is not allowed should ask their club for advice. These rules were introduced to allow match officials, the police and the club the opportunity to report behaviour including offensive singing to the appropriate authorities including the SPL and SFL. However, importantly, the clubs themselves are responsible and accountable for the prevention of such behaviour and sanctions can be applied by an independent commission. Disorderly conduct includes, conduct which stirs up or sustains hatred or ill will against or towards a group of persons based on membership of a religious group, or of a social cultural group, with a perceived religious affiliation. If a report is made from an official who believes the conduct falls within this then further investigation would be made. What is acceptable can be subjective and until such times as case law exists, supporters should consider if they infringe the above and act appropriately. While I understand this does not answer your specific question on ‘We are the people’, may I suggest that you seek further clarification from Rangers FC if you are still unsure?” Let’s analyse the SFA’s response then….. “It is not our policy to look at individual songs and say whether or not they fall within the new ‘Unacceptable Conduct’ rules as clearly there are songs which may be unacceptable to some and not to others, and others that can simply have words added making them fall into the category.” But surely it is the policy of the SFA as they are going to be publishing a list of ‘Banned Songs’? Or could it be that no such list will ever exist and it is just more bullsh*t that someone is hoping supporters around the country will blindly believe? “Supporters in any doubt as to what is and what is not allowed should ask their club for advice.” “However, importantly, the clubs themselves are responsible and accountable for the prevention of such behaviour and sanctions can be applied by an independent commission.” “While I understand this does not answer your specific question on ‘We are the people’, may I suggest that you seek further clarification from Rangers FC if you are still unsure?” Three separate statements that infer that the responsibility is with the Club for determining which songs are banned and which are not. Again this suggests that the SFA have no intention of publishing any ‘Banned Songs’ list. More importantly, why are Rangers continually trying to shirk responsibility here? “Disorderly conduct includes, conduct which stirs up or sustains hatred or ill will against or towards a group of persons based on membership of a religious group, or of a social cultural group, with a perceived religious affiliation. If a report is made from an official who believes the conduct falls within this then further investigation would be made.” Another statement that opens up a whole new can of worms! At which point do the offended become the offenders? For my own part, I remain convinced that the whole "banning" of TBB was almost entirely contrived and as much to do with establishing personal credentials as compliance with any directives that held consequences for Rangers. This was a bandwagon that careered downhill out of control and was eventually hijacked by opportunists who we chose not to challenge. If we want to start mending fences around here, sooner or later we are going to have to deal with issues like this. For clarity the asterisks above refer of course to the apparently taboo word "feenyan"

Post Number 2.... With regards to point 2 (and this may be of interest to anyone connected with the Dublin RSC...... ââ?¬Å?It has long been the position that flags of any nationality which do not contain any added words or slogans which others may find offensive are allowed in stadia across Scotland.ââ?¬Â Therefore shall we take it as read that upon receiving complaints from Rangers fans with regards to the usual treatment they are subjected to at Celtic Park whilst displaying the Union Flag, Mr. Scott will take up our fight as these flags are deemed acceptable to be displayed by the SPL/SFA? ââ?¬Å?If you have any difficulties regarding particular flags please do not hesitate to address your concerns to me in order that I am able to discuss the issue with you.ââ?¬Â Is this inferring that should we be offended by any flag or banner at Ibrox Park being displayed by Celtic fans, upon passing on our complaint to Jim Hannah (fans liaison officer), he will in turn seek (through Kenny Scott) the immediate removal of said offending flag/banner? ------------------- So with regards to songs (Iââ?¬â?¢m dealing with fans welfare as a separate issue completely), part of my 2nd letter (in response to his reply above) to Kenny Scott went as followsââ?¬Â¦.. ââ?¬Å?My initial request was in seeking clarification from the Club as to what is deemed acceptable with regards to songs, flags, and banners being sung or displayed by Rangers supporters both at home and away. As you will see, my initial letter was dated before the season kicked off and my concerns have been further been highlighted on several occasions throughout the season so far where the media have falsely stated that Rangers supporters have been guilty of singing songs that the Club have stated are sectarian. These claims by the media have so far gone unchallenged by Rangers and once again the supporters are portrayed as having brought shame upon the club. The first statement from your letter that Iââ?¬â?¢d like to discuss is as follows: ââ?¬Å?Rangers Football Club appreciate the difficulties encountered by supporters in trying to understand what is and what is not acceptable under the new guidelines. Despite this however the Club is not in a position to state unequivocally which songs and chants are acceptable and which are unacceptable. What we would like to point out is that the Club policy is and will remain that we would prefer supporters to sing songs about Rangers Football Club and about football in generalââ?¬Â I would like to point out that my request for clarification was in relation to ââ?¬Å?songs about Rangers Football Club and about football in generalââ?¬Â and not anything else so therefore I find it bizarre that the Club would adopt the stance of ââ?¬Å?the Club is not in a position to state unequivocally which songs and chants are acceptable and which are unacceptableââ?¬Â. For example, can the Club clarify that the following song is acceptable by the Club to be sung by Rangers supporters as it only contains lyrics relating to Rangers Football Club and football in general? After all, by your own admission in your statement, ââ?¬Å?the Club policy is and will remain that we would prefer supporters to sing songs about Rangers Football Club and about football in generalââ?¬Â, We are the people We are the people who sing of victory We speak of football glories from Kilmarnock to Dundee We follow Glasgow Rangers our hearts are strong and true For we are the people who cheer the boys in blue Hello, Hello, we are the Rangers boys Hello, Hello, youââ?¬â?¢ll know us by our noise We follow Glasgow Rangers our hearts are strong and true For we are the people who cheer the boys in blue Weââ?¬â?¢ll be there at Ibrox when Rangers take the field Theyââ?¬â?¢ll follow onto triumph as we know theyââ?¬â?¢ll never lose And 60,000 voices will cheer the whole game through For we are the people who cheer the boys in blue Hello, Hello, we are the Rangers boys Hello, Hello, youââ?¬â?¢ll know us by our noise We follow Glasgow Rangers our hearts are strong and true For we are the people who cheer the boys in blue The second statement from your letter that Iââ?¬â?¢d like to discuss is as follows: ââ?¬Å?I do not believe that the Club has anything further which it is required to do in regard to notification of supporters in respect of the new SPL regulationsââ?¬Â. Yes, there is no disputing that the Club has met its obligations under the SPL Regulations regarding the issuing of statements in programmes etc. but in reality, the statements only tell the supporters what the regulations are, they donââ?¬â?¢t tell the supporters what the Club deems to be unacceptable. Overall the club is viewed by the supporters to be adopting a ââ?¬Ë?head in the sandââ?¬â?¢ attitude, hoping it will all go away. Ignoring the problem is not going to solve it, education of the supporters is the only way forward.ââ?¬Â After receiving my 2nd letter, Kenny Scott requested that I arrange a suitable time for myself to attend Ibrox and have a discussion with him. I sought legal advice as to how I should correctly go about things from here on in and the advice given was that I should continue correspondence in written form only as a means of maintaining an auditable trail of information passed between parties. Therefore I wrote to Kenny Scott explaining that after seeking legal advice, I could not attend any meeting. He further replied that ââ?¬Å?As I had taken legal advice he could no longer continue correspondence with me.ââ?¬Â