maineflyer

I expect Murray to speak up in defence of the many decent fans like me who went to Manchester, had a brilliant day and came home again without causing any trouble to anyone. Yeah, right. If he doesn't do this I may have to lower my opinion of him. No. it is possible.

It's a fair question and an uncomfortable one to answer for me. I come from the generation who made the pilgimage to Wembley every second year and saw the national team as hugely important - something that sat comfortably beside supporting Rangers. All that has certainly changed for me but I'm less sure exactly when it happened. I think it was the Andy Roxburgh/ Craig Brown era and had much to do with the Graeme Souness revolution at Rangers. Suddenly Rangers were the biggest show in town by far and teh SFSA didn't particularly like it, especially when Souness showed himself intent on taking on anyone who straying into his crosshairs. Roxburgh's treatment of Richard Gough, continued by Craig Brown, was typical of the growing rift between Ibrox and Hampden. I cringed at Rangers fans openly wearing England gear (most of them were never English) but it was just another expression of the gulf between the SFA and Rangers. I do feel completely alienated from the SFA and hence the national team and that really pisses me off. I used to scoff at the idea but I'm becoming persuaded that there is indeed an anti-Rangers element emerging in the football authorities in Scotland and somewhere down the line there is going to be a real confrontation - probably when Rangers eventually rise again from the current mess and confidence returns to Ibrox boardroom.

As Frankie says, That's an excellent idea. One that I hadn't thought of but which seems obviously right as soon as you read it. What irks me is that there seem to be very few ex-players who are prepared to hear a word said against the club - or at least they seem understandably reluctant to see a wedge driven between them and the club if they do speak out against the current regime. Willie Henderson is one I've heard do it to a limited extent but can you imagine what would be said about him if he were to step forward. One possible candidate I can see out there who might command enough respect is Richard Gough. I think the businessmen are probably there but if it were me then I would want to wait until Murray's house of cards starts to fall before stepping into the limelight. Always attack your victim when he's wounded and least abvle to defend himself.

.........anyhoooooo, back in the real world, whether the time is right for protest or not, I don't think today's timidity from Mitty did much to delay it.

Look, rather than waste your time trying to weasel out of it by playing the victim, why not either have the balls to stand by your original statement or withdraw it.

Don't worry, I read exactly what you posted. Nice try though.

Sounds fair enough. Boyd made his decision and both need to get on with it. Burley will miss Boyd much more than the other way round however. In fact, my bet is that burley won't be manager of Scotland for as long as most people think. He's surprised me, I thought he knew what he was doing but so far he's shown himself to be from the Walter Smith school of management.

Good. because by the look of it, Miller has already run his course and we'll need a real striker to take his place.

Likewise. Thought the world of him too but he left Rangers for good as far as I'm concerned when he took the septic shilling.

I noticed that FF were the only site to remove any reference to VB. What is the problem there?

I have no issue with him expressing his opinion. However, when any of us does so, particularly on such an important matter, we provide others with the opportunity to comment upon it. Which is what I did. How I do it, within reason, is my business. You don't have to attend matches to take action however, or wave a banner. Out of principle, I haven't bought a season ticket for two years now and I don't buy club merchandise. I stop short of saying I'll never pay to see Rangers until Murray leaves - but it's close. I also write many letters to the media, to the club, to politicians and others where I see the reputation of the club being tarnished or flagrant abuse being thrown around. I sometimes contribute funds to "causes" where these are aimed at removing Murray or otherwise challenging the problems I see as holding us back. There are many ways to contribute and while some cannot do all, all can do some. There were about 80 people who took an hour out of their time recently before a home game to protest outside the BBC offices in Glasgow. Many of us accept there is overt bias at the BBC in Scotland but so few were prepared to do anything about it when so many could have done at little or no sacrifice. If you don't believe in protest then that's fine but surely some respect is due to those who care enough to do it. To describe those who do care enough to raise their heads above the parapet and protest as "embarrassing" is cringeworthy and at least worthy of challenge.

These comments are so removed from reality that you must exist in some kind of personal vacuum. God knows where you get your views on this but they seem to be based largely on fear and self-doubt. To describe those few fans who care enough to actually get off their arses and do something as "embarrassing" is highly offensive and smacks of the very supercilious smugness that has allowed Murray to pull the wool over our eyes for so long. I've become used to your contradictory opinions and the shallowness of your position on the really important challenges facing our club but statements like this are nauseating. I wouldn't mind if you came out and said you wholeheartedly endorse Murray's leadership and performance, that at least would be a clear position to take. But to snipe and whine from the sidelines at people who truly care is unforgivable. What have you actually done to help the club, apart from vent your spleen on internet forums?

Nah, how could there be a problem? After all, we are still the Billy Boys. Aren't we?

I agree with some of that but I also feel that teaching is for teachers and not everyone wants to be a teacher. I'm also not too sure about the momentum bit. It could also be said that the reason it has taken such an incredible amount of time to travel this far is because those disposed to action have actually consumed their energies on internet forums. Will this shedding of light ever actually illuminate anything? Many fans still can't se there is a problem, let alone the causes of it - how much light do you waste on them. I'm reminded that intelligence is distributed normally throughout the community. That being the case, if you are of an above-average intelligence yourself, you have no option but to accept that the majority of people you interact with in life simply do not see the world in the way you do. They cannot. Leaving irrelevant morality out of the equation, you could turn blue in the face trying to get them to understand your point of view and still fail. Sometimes you have to get on and do it, without regard for the sensibilities or understanding of the majority. In the immortal words of Esther Rantzen - that's life.

Bet you're wrong about that.:devil:

I think if they'd taken some time to understand his situation at the time and show a wee bit of compassion, they might have taken more appropriate decisions. It's true he can come across kinda strong at times but there are factors that need to be taken into account. The guy has been through hell and his health has suffered as a result. For my own part, I cannot imagine how I would deal with that situation - or with the so-called bears who have turned their backs on him - and David Murray who met him to offer support and then slammed the door when he couldn't be assured of a flawless Corky. Like, who's flawless? The whole Corky affair is an example of just how difficult it can be to achieve justice in Scotland today. As for FF, Corky has found a better place to post these days.

What was equally disgusting was the way that FF removed the thread and banned the guy. I think that hurts him almost as much as the affair itself.

It really all depends where you are on the journey. Not everyone moves at the same speed and not everyone has the same distance to travel. I've been ready for a long time. I've harboured deep suspicions about the way the club was being run as far back as 1998. That's a long tine to nurse your frustrations and a long time to watch the same mistakes being made by the same people. I've also seen and taken part in protests before at Ibrox so the idea of protest really doesn't phase me the ways it appears to do some more reluctant souls amongst us. I also admit to being fairly reactionary by nature, that's just part of everyday business life, where hesitation and self-doubt can be very dangerous luxuries. Many keep going on about the time not yet being right for protest. Well guys, if it's not right with the mess this club is in right now, then you need to accept that it never will be for you and you should just watch the footy and leave the protests to others. Actually, it should also be understood that protest is already happening all the time, and has been for some time. It's just on a lower level and not the mass protests that everyone has in mind. Perhaps it doesn't involve you, it may even be invisible, but there are people who are writing to the club weekly, forging relationships with the media, and so on. But mass protest is coming too. No doubt at all about that. We may win this league and we may not see mass protest this time around but the next crisis is just around the corner - this season, next season, the time isn't far away when the dam breaks. There are only so many moonbeams.

I haven't seen any mention of this on other sites - is this simple fiction or is anyone aware where this originated?

Here ye go.............. http://www.gopetition.co.uk/petitions/apology-from-strathclyde-police.html

I watched this develop over the last few weeks. The person involved has been very determined and very shrewd in guiding this to a conclusion, despite every attempt by Strathclyde police to weasel out of their responsibilities. I have the most profound admiration for the way this particular campaign has been waged and it shows us all what can be achieved by motivated bears. Well done Vanguardbears, exceptional effort.

You and me both mate. There ought to be a law to stop these people breeding. And another to destroy those already here.

The OP thinks he might just delete the whole thread.

Wasn't looking for bites. Just indulging in a spot of perversity. As you do.

What he said, except delete 1p and insert a broken button.