Bill

Seems to me that's what this whole debate has been about. Some say the personnel were OK but the tactics were wrong. Others that it wouldn't have mattered what tactics were employed because the players had their heads up their arses. Both might be right but it's unlikely both are wrong.

Abstaining (or rather, announcing your abstention to everyone) is adolescent behaviour. On the other hand, announcing your abstention while also voting for the worst player on the pitch is a kind of genius - thanks Compo.

Rangers 3 Hearts 1 FGS - Morelos

Easiest choice of the season. Ryan Jack wasn't just head and shoulders another rest in terms of desire but everything he did with the ball was in a different league. Special mention for Allan McGregor too. Can we ban Compo from future votes for extreme sarcasm 😉

I believe GvB will know what to do. Otherwise he would have had to go through life with his eyes permanently closed. However, even if all the issues are within his gift to resolve, I do wonder if the current malaise can be repaired overnight, or even this season. As many others have already stated here, these issues have been with us in one form or another since the start of the season. Gerrard and his much-vaunted backroom staff were also unable to motivate the same players they had led to the title only a few months previously. I think your use of the word "collectively" is astute and raises the question of why an entire squad that had such success less than a year ago could be as dysfunctional as we saw on Wednesday? I've often wondered why Connor Goldson, the rock in our title winning defence, has been so reluctant either to sign a new contract or simply make it plain he intends not to ... and why the same player was the only one to vent his spleen after the Hibs cup debacle ... is he hinting at what's behind the collective lack of desire we saw so clearly against Celtic. Is there low-level conflict in the camp between those who with hunger for more success and those who think they've already achieved hero status?

Hard to take issue with any of that .... except I would substitute Tavernier for Kent. Tav will be back but right now he is in desperate need of a break.

Yes I agree. This is at the heart of everything. Too many of last season’s squad have sunk deep into their comfort zone and decided to stay there. GvB will know this - he’s been through it himself and knows what’s missing. The question is whether he can find a way to re-energise the players. I just don’t see him shouting and intimidating but I do think he will simply drop certain players, explain why and leave it to them to decide if they want a future here. I suspect we might have seen the last of at least one first team regular.

Yes but in this particular issue it's about as black and white as you're ever likely to see.

It could but it would be completely wrong.

If last night taught us one thing it's that this is not the Celtic of last August. They've been building and improving while we (at best) have stood still.

There is no way in this world that GvB will lose his job this season or next. That just won't happen. If he fails to win the league this year then he will be given a season to respond and rightly so. There's a world of difference between acknowledging inexperience in a new setting and the dangers involved if things continue to slide ... and (effectively) hanging a new manager out to dry after a couple of months in the job. We should be careful not to confuse a problem with a tragedy and leave some room for this to be where GvB earns his spurs. Postecoglou has had the advantage of essentially building a new team whereas GvB is trying to resurrect a team that's in parts well beyond its sellby date.

I did.

Yes, they're shite so they are. 🙄 Yes, we're brilliant and we're gonna win the league. 🙄

Seems to be behind some sort of paywall

Some further reflections on the game yesterday. It seems to me that something quite fundamental needs to change and change quickly if we still want to be in this title race a month from now. It relates to player attitudes but it's perhaps most easily seen in the attitudes we see routinely expressed by the support. As the season started in 2020, we were prepared for failure. Very much hoping for success but cautioned against excess optimism by the outcomes of the two previous compaigns. In the end and despite miserable cup exits, I don't think many of us could believe the extent of our success, winning the title by a mile and beating Celtic every time we faced them. It was like every dream come true and we were "back". What a contrast this season. Suddenly all caution is abandoned and we're wallowing in a new entitlement. Naturally we're going to win the league again. Celtic are shite and their weird manager is a joke. Even when we lose our transformational manager in still-unexplained circumstances, within week we're patting each other on the back, sure in our sense of destiny that we've turned a possible booby trap into a new and better launchpad. Well Celtic are not "shite", they're currently better than us in every way that matters - more skilful, more determined, more hardworking, more united. Their manager isn't a joke at all. In a few short months he's assembled a new team, got them winning, turned a basket case into league leaders and (whisper it) title favourites. Meanwhile, we're in total denial about what's happening across the city and still smugly asserting our superiority ... until last night when the lights all came on at once. If you still don't get it then you're still asleep. Yesterday was a wake up call that said we're in a fight that we're no longer favourites to win. While Celtic have been working hard to win 'their' title back, we haven't even realised we're in a fight at all. If we don't urgently lose that misconception and appreciate the challenge that's been thrown down then we have absolutely no chance of defending our title. I say "we" but of course I'm using the attitude of the support (that we all know is wrong and may of us have shared) as an analog for what I believe is replicated in the dressing room and lies at the heart of what happened yesterday. Just look at Barisic and Tavernier and tell me they haven't lost the path. Footballers are not renowned for their introspection and self-examination, they feed off the atmosphere created by the support and I think we've all somewhat lost the plot. Right now, on both sides of the white lines, we need men of determination and motivation. Goldson was right after all and last night Jack's excellent performance provided the contrast needed to show how far most of the team have fallen. I no longer think we can turn this around without significant changes on the field. The past counts for nothing. I'd rather lose this title fighting and end the season knowing who's up for the fight, than meekly capitulate, thinking the same failing plan would suddenly start working. They say managers are people who seek to do things right, while leaders are people who seek to do the right things. Right now, we desperately need a leader who has the courage to break moulds and the nous to re-assemble the pieces properly. If GvB doesn't wield the knife, then in time-honoured fashion these players will take him down with them.

Amid the carnage of last night I think a small recognition is due for the way Calvin Bassey responded to being removed from his makeshift role in central defence, where he has struggled a bit, and showed good spirit and some skill in his true position at left back. In future, if injuries again plague our central defenders, we need a different stopgap solution. Sands presumably.

That's actually a good thing. If a performance like last night didn't hurt then we'd be less likely to respond the right way.

He should always start and, if necessary, hook him at half time or after an hour. I'd also give him the armband while Tav is rested, and not Goldson.

That was inevitable ... and not entirely undeserved

We've had our say about what the players served up at Parkhead but for me the mentality oF players, staff and supporters alike should have been governed by pragmatism rather than tribalism. While victory at Celtic would have been perfect, the priority for Rangers yesterday wasn't to win but to avoid defeat and the team should have been set up with that in mind. Midfield in particular should have been selected to dominate possession and to deny them time and space. The time to be more progressive was if we were still in the game after an hour. The number of fans calling for a gung-ho attacking formation was very hard to understand and hints at a conceit that expects every season to unfold like last season. What really worries me is I suspect some players have the same poor grasp on reality as exhibited by certain fans. Everyone connected with Rangers need to lose all thoughts of last season, accept they've just been outplayed and humiliated, then decide whether they've got the personal courage to claw their way out of this. I know at the outset that there are some in this squad who won't be up to it and unless our manager is prepared to show some teeth there well may be others who will prefer denial to redemption. No more Mr Nice Gio please.

That exact thing was said clearly enough on this forum after the Aberdeen game and again before last night's debacle but (I feel) there are some individual players for whom, on current form, it wouldn't matter what formation was fielded.

When people think and act like losers the best thing to change are the people.

If Jack's fitness is such he can only be used sparingly then we have a major problem that only Ramsey might fill, although he really needs to be free to play a more progressive role. We've grown used to him being absent but tonight should have served as a reminder that Jack really is by some margin our most effective midfielder. If he can be relied upon to play regularly then I feel a whole lot better about our prospects. If not then I don't see any of the current squad filling his boots - Davis might but I doubt if he still has the legs for week-in-week-out football?

I think that's a fair summary for Tav

I think things need to change. My take on it might be along these lines McGregor Zukowski - Goldson - Balogun - Bassey Ramsey - Jack - Aribo Diallo - Morelos - Kent