Keevins in Sunday Mail

[barca72 440]

What does the UVF have to do with supporting Rangers ? Genuine question.....

 

Good question.

I don't know if I could fully answer that question. I would say that a person should read that blog by D'Art when he explained the P/U/L/ culture and tie-in with the Rangers support and culture.

I would say that some days the only atmosphere at Ibrox comes from the BF1 area housing the Union Bears and the Blue Order. Leaving aside the content of their songsheet for a moment, I would say their common trait is passion. When anyone leaves Ibrox and they declare "That was a great game", are they describing the football on display, the atmosphere, the self contribution to the whole production?

Most of the posters on this thread have, at some point, admitted when they were younger of vigorously belting out these very songs against which they are arguing. They give the impression that as a young man ( unbeatable and indestructable to be sure ) they belted out these very favourites against which they now rail. The greatest anthem of them all - The Billy Boys - galvanized us to our toe nails, that one alone got us hooked. I can't tell you one thing that on its own turned me into a Rangers supporter. The whole package I suppose brought me back week after week. Took me all the way to Barcelona in 1972.

Now we are older and have the ability to look beyond the moment and contemplate the right and the wrong of a situation. The passion and energy has abated somewhat, but not the deeply held support for Rangers. I go back to cup finals at Hampden when there was near enough 100,000 fans packed into its terracings. Half on one side and half on the other hurling abuse at one another, and not a word of that noise understood by the target for whom it was intended. We didn't know the words to most of their songs, didn't care. The worst thing that could happen to you was that some drunk would pish on your leg or a bottle or can would come out of the sky behind you. Didn't matter, your team had done their job on the park and you had put that other lot in their place. You went home completely exhilarated or completely depressed, but job done. Bring on next week.

Rangers have a huge global support and you have to wonder why that is. Is it the scintillating football they produce each week, is it the lawyer approved song sheet from which they sing each week? What is it that can galvanize a world wide audience for Rangers? Do you think it is because the songs are sung with or without a UVF influence, or do they matter?

When we were coming up we were inducted into the culture that surrounded Rangers, we embraced it, we knew what it was and we came back for more - with a passion.

The world is changing, sure it is. Are all things that are changing for the better? Who knows? Do we have the right to deny the young up-and-coming fan of today the elements of the culture which induced us to follow our passion?

I don't know. To each his own I suppose.

[calscot 0]

Most of the posters on this thread have, at some point, admitted when they were younger of vigorously belting out these very songs against which they are arguing. They give the impression that as a young man ( unbeatable and indestructable to be sure ) they belted out these very favourites against which they now rail.

 

As said before, I sang a few at 11 and stopped at 11 as I worked out the rights and wrongs then - you don't have to age 30 years before you get it. At the time I also found it all a bit weird and tried to get someone to explain the Orange Walk to me but the best they could so is pretty much say, it is what it is, as it really doesn't make much sense.

 

The greatest anthem of them all - The Billy Boys - galvanized us to our toe nails, that one alone got us hooked.

 

And that pretty much shows you the lack of intelligence, common sense or even street smarts in it all. Would it really be overly PC for fans to sing, "we're up to our knees in our enemy's blood?" or "we're up to our knees in Celtic's blood?" That's all it required to prevent it from being banned.

 

But its seems your trying to justify something that just doesn't wash. Maybe you were looking for some kind of cult instead of a football team to support.

 

The world is changing, sure it is. Are all things that are changing for the better? Who knows? Do we have the right to deny the young up-and-coming fan of today the elements of the culture which induced us to follow our passion?

I don't know. To each his own I suppose.

 

Why not deny them? The rest of the footballing world has done fine without it while our country is in the sess-pit. There is a gamut of other really positive traditions that no-one seems interested in perpetuating so why continue one that just encourages hate, violence and bigotry?

[barca72 440]

As said before, I sang a few at 11 and stopped at 11 as I worked out the rights and wrongs then - you don't have to age 30 years before you get it.

 

You're entitled to your opinion and that's fine.

One question - Do you think 38k-40k people would buy season tickets, and a tv audience of millions, to listen to a choir whose high point is 'Penny Arcade'?

I know you 'get it'.

[RyanGers193 0]

Which background have you changed there, Ryan?

 

The background of this site.

[Calgacus 8]

As said before, I sang a few at 11 and stopped at 11 as I worked out the rights and wrongs then - you don't have to age 30 years before you get it.

 

You're entitled to your opinion and that's fine.

One question - Do you think 38k-40k people would buy season tickets, and a tv audience of millions, to listen to a choir whose high point is 'Penny Arcade'?

I know you 'get it'.

 

I thought people bought season tickets to watch the football.

[Juancornetto 1]

No Orangism, Loyalism, Terrorism or any other superfluous ism has any place in football Ryan, if you want to fight your cultural war then please do so without involving Rangers Football Club, start a movement or a political party or something.

 

Tata

[RyanGers193 0]

No Orangism, Loyalism, Terrorism or any other superfluous ism has any place in football Ryan, if you want to fight your cultural war then please do so without involving Rangers Football Club, start a movement or a political party or something.

 

Tata

 

Thanks for your concern but if it's all the same no, I'll continue to join in with thousands and thousands of Rangers fans singing loyalist songs.

 

Do you tell people at games not to sing these songs?

[barca72 440]

 

I thought people bought season tickets to watch the football.

 

That's what drew you to and keeps you at the Rangers' matches? You knew the 90-min entertainment package went with the football when you started supporting Rangers, why change it now?

[Juancornetto 1]

Thanks for your concern but if it's all the same no, I'll continue to join in with thousands and thousands of Rangers fans singing loyalist songs.

 

Do you tell people at games not to sing these songs?

 

[amms 0]

 

That's what drew you to and keeps you at the Rangers' matches? You knew the 90-min entertainment package went with the football when you started supporting Rangers, why change it now?

 

I can't speak for Calgacus but it's certainly what keeps me at Rangers. The loyalist stuff drives me away frankly.

 

Why change now is an interesting question. Times change Barca, people grow older, wiser, more rounded. Things that matter when you're young no longer matter 20 years later. Things that made you angry once now make you shrug your shoulders. Things that you barely thought about once now you care for passionately, life doesn't stand still, everything changes, evolves and wishing it wasn't so will simply make you bitter and unhappy.

 

The loyalist songs will go, I've no doubts about that. They'll either go because we as a support will choose to drop them, either because we recognise how ridiculous they are or because the club asks us too. If we don't then I believe society will force us too, legislation and the police will enforce it. There is no appetite for it now in most of Scotland. Where once it was tacitly tolerated it is now openly disparaged by most 'Protestants' here, society has little tolerance for religiously motivated politics, that's not going to change in the foreseeable future either. Support for 'orangism' is declining every year, it's an anachronism now.

 

So to answer your 'why change now' question as simply as I can, because that's the way the the society we live in is going, and those who don't evolve to change die out.