Doc 280 Posted August 7, 2014 Share Posted August 7, 2014 Great post. The lack of understanding with regard to the co-efficient is going to shock many people if/when Rangers do start challenging for a European place. There is a misconception that it will just be like before. To be fair I think many people recognize that it's not going to be as it was. The idiots at the top of the SFPL and the SFA might stick their fingers in their ears and their heads in the sand and pretend that everything is great with Scottish football when the reality is that it's been on the slide for years. Last night and the probable early elimination of Aberdeen and St Johnstone tonight for the EL have been on the cards for ages. Celtic have had no domestic competition and fluked their way through the CL the last two years. The Europa league contribution from the other SPL clubs since we got booted out has been pitiful. Our league is a mismanaged joke and other nations have simply got their acts together a lot more. It's not just Rangers that better have a plan when/if we play European football again it's the whole of Scottish football. We're all in for some tough times. The current lack of expectation ought to be the perfect opportunity for a talented manager to improve, what on the face of it are, average players and produce a team that is greater than the sum of it's parts. What chance of that happening at Rangers (or anyone else for that matter) anytime soon? 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
der Berliner 3,234 Posted August 7, 2014 Share Posted August 7, 2014 Good to have another notice of the "need of a talented manager" or else. Scotland have been one the fringes of European football for the best part of a decade, with only us and the Yahoos actually able to compete. The current format of the CL and EL with three or four qualification rounds in mid-summer against quality opposition does its job, as well as the inclusion of the country's co-efficient in the club rankings. I reckon my home-town team Hertha Berlin is placed quite well, but not because they have done that much in Europe themselves for the last 2 decades (if they were actually in the BL at all). Where's the talent? Well, again the issues are manyfold and if the current Scots don't have that talent or it is not reared to be great, what can you do? If you look at the German or French national teams, they are littered with folk you wouldn't instantly recognize as German or French. Whether they are naturlized people or chaps living in the respective countries for ages or not. And both countries should surely have loads of "German" or "French" talent? Maybe there is a problem with the modern day "Western European" youths in general, folk not interested in football ... and those who are might not be of the required "quality"? Just as food for thought. Will that be a one way street though? Hardly. Who can tell what sort of managers will have developed in 5 to 10 years time, what sort of young talent will come through? What we sure know is that the days and ages of an easy access to Europe for Scottish (and a host of other) teams is gone as long UEFA look for the highest income and not any sort of sporting integrity and fair play to all. For the time being, it is more of hope and pray and doing an Aalborg or the like, rather than expecting to beat opponents like we did 20odd years ago. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrahimHemdani 1 Posted August 7, 2014 Share Posted August 7, 2014 Great post. The lack of understanding with regard to the co-efficient is going to shock many people if/when Rangers do start challenging for a European place. There is a misconception that it will just be like before. Thank you very much for that. I have taken a lot of stick on here and on European trips even became known as Mr Coefficient for taking the stance that all Scottish Clubs playing in Europe are in it together; I have often been met with we'll be fine on our own and don't need to rely on others to help us, jibes. But in truth the opposite is true. Celtic's performances in 2002-03 & 2003-04 pushed Scotland to 9th/10th place and helped Scottish Clubs for the next five years as did Rangers European run in 2007-08 (10th again), to give just two examples. As things stand right now, the combined efforts of Aberdeen, Motherwell, St Johnstone and Celtic have amassed a meagre 7 points in the qualifiers, for an average of 1.75; which is just about half our running average for the past five years (the period taken into account in the coefficient rankings); and Scotland's worst performance for exactly 20 years when Lou Macari's Celtic didn't even qualify and we went out in the Qualifying Round of the CL beaten home and away by AEK Athens. Those well known footballing nations of Kazakhstan and Azerbaijan have more points than us this season and even Liechtenstein, whose only entrants FC Valduz won two and drew one in the qualifiers, have a better average than us. That shows the level Scottish football is at right now. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tannochsidebear 2,306 Posted August 7, 2014 Share Posted August 7, 2014 While I agree on the co-efficient's point, and regularly take a look at Bert Kassie's excellent site to keep an eye on how things are progressing, I cannot put as a priority the hope that Scottish sides do well to protect our National rating. Scum aside, I used to be quite supportive of other Scottish sides playing in Europe for that very reason, but that all changed forever when they ganged up to force us out of the SPL, and stole our prize money, transfer fees, and even tried to steal our titles. As it stands, European football is so far away for us that it is irrelevant at this time. When we qualify again, probably for the 16-17 season and have to play before the Glasgow Fair even begins, so be it. That is a small price to pay to see the teams who tried to kill us off suffer, especially financially. With the way our club is being run just now anyway, a European run and worrying about our co-efficient is as far away as an honest Director. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Real PapaBear 0 Posted August 7, 2014 Author Share Posted August 7, 2014 While I agree on the co-efficient's point, and regularly take a look at Bert Kassie's excellent site to keep an eye on how things are progressing, I cannot put as a priority the hope that Scottish sides do well to protect our National rating. Scum aside, I used to be quite supportive of other Scottish sides playing in Europe for that very reason, but that all changed forever when they ganged up to force us out of the SPL, and stole our prize money, transfer fees, and even tried to steal our titles. As it stands, European football is so far away for us that it is irrelevant at this time. When we qualify again, probably for the 16-17 season and have to play before the Glasgow Fair even begins, so be it. That is a small price to pay to see the teams who tried to kill us off suffer, especially financially. With the way our club is being run just now anyway, a European run and worrying about our co-efficient is as far away as an honest Director. this post is narrow-minded, petty and bitter - and I couldn't agree with it more 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluedell 5,329 Posted August 7, 2014 Share Posted August 7, 2014 If it's a choice between Celtic getting an additional £15m-20m and Scotland losing a few co-efficient points, I'll take the latter every time. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ian1964 10,409 Posted August 7, 2014 Share Posted August 7, 2014 Lifted from FF: Mr Leigh Griffiths trying to attack a fan leaving the pitch, pictures can be seen on Twitter. Security had to surround the Celtic Directors and chants of GTF to Lawell. Polish families sitting in the Celtic end being abused. Coins thrown at the Polish support. Drunken fans everywhere. Some quotes below Someone commented earlier about bringing back alcohol at matches, I was in the south stand upper and without wanting to sound pompous, far too many of our fans cannot handle the bevvy the consume outside let alone sell it to them inside the ground. ............................................... Security men moved in to protect Lawwell and the rest of the Hoops hierarchy in the main stand. ............................................... I was in the East Stand so don`t know whether security had to move in to protect Lawwell but there was certainly a poisonous atmosphere tonight. Lots of Legia fans in amongst Celtic fans where I was sitting, a mass brawl kicked off after the 1st goal with a group of guys knocking seven shades out of each other. Police and stewards were useless and nowhere to be seen then. Some fans seemed to be completely blootered, more so than I`ve ever seen before, even on European away trips. Come to think of it, there were plenty of folk in a right state through the drink before the Rejkavik game too, but I just put that down to the weather. ....................................... I was near the mass exodus of around 50 Polish fans from our fans section behind the Polish goalie at the first goal. I did not see any fighting, just cheering from isolated Legia fans, but what I did see concerned me. I saw Celtic fans, angry at the loss of a goal, pointing out “intruders” in their section and ensuring the police escorted them out of their section. Many of them were young men with their girlfriends or wives and seem to have been evicted for a quiet celebration. .................................................. ....................... I was also in the East stand – section 14. I witnessed some dreadful behaviour from Celtic fans towards the Legia fans who were near me. I saw the incident you referred to but also two others right in front of me. I was embarrassed by the behaviour and language of some of our supporters. One guy in particular was clearly looking for a fight and did his best to goad one Legia fan. Disgusted with this behaviour. .................................................. .............. Could see from my seat that their was some abuse of Lawell etc going on and security were moved in. Some very angry people. There was also some kind of altercation with Leigh Griffiths in the tunnel at the end. To be honest I didn’t see that clearly, just saw him shouting. Thought it was at a fan but not 100 per can’t sure. Maybe someone else saw it. .................................................. .............. To be honest all that carry on almost sickened me as much as the game itself. No excuses for the conduct of some of our fans and I felt really sorry for those with kids who were nearby when the brawling kicked off. .................................................. ..... Some of the Legia fans I saw were couples, there was also a mother, father and their two children. They weren`t looking for trouble but some Legia fans had attacked the Roseburn Bar before the game….not that the Legia fans in the Celtic end were to have known that. Celtic should never have sold them tickets for the Celtic end, simple as that. Their money greed led to young children witnessing violence and anger at close quarters. .................................................. .... Celtic fans kicking off and racially abusing a shop owner on shandwick place tonight, sad to see .................................................. .. Embarrassed to be a Celtic fan and at the game tonight. Not only were the team horrendous, Celtic fans fighting amongst themselves aswell. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Barristan Selmy 222 Posted August 7, 2014 Share Posted August 7, 2014 If it's a choice between Celtic getting an additional £15m-20m and Scotland losing a few co-efficient points, I'll take the latter every time. I hope you are looking forward to decades without any run in Europe and us continuing to have a useless squad. Had Celtic not got to the last 16 a couple of seasons ago our co-efficient would probably be comparable to a part-time league. If we are to ever get strong again we need the nation to have a strong co-efficient. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
barca72 440 Posted August 7, 2014 Share Posted August 7, 2014 I hope you are looking forward to decades without any run in Europe and us continuing to have a useless squad. Had Celtic not got to the last 16 a couple of seasons ago our co-efficient would probably be comparable to a part-time league. If we are to ever get strong again we need the nation to have a strong co-efficient. The points you make in your post are valid. However, had C*ltic won the game last night very little in your post would have changed. For the moment we are just enjoying the discomfort of our friends in the east, especially TGFITW. If I may be permitted, I have a greeting for them ... GIRFUY !! 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
der Berliner 3,234 Posted August 7, 2014 Share Posted August 7, 2014 Were they actually fined and taken to the cleaners for all the damage done in Dundee? 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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