match thread (image) [FT] Partick Thistle 0 - 2 Rangers (Windass 39; Tavernier 59)

[RANGERRAB 3,291]

Windass is turning out to be a class act who could fetch us a decent transfer fee in the not too distant future. Hope that gets understood by some of his detractors

[pete 2,499]

13 hours ago, JFK-1 said:

I think we have always had players like Bates who weren't so great on the ball but defensively competent even when we were trying to attract the cream of world football.  It reminds me of a quip made by Walter Smith when asked a question about Scott Nisbet.

 

Smith replies "every pass is an adventure" 

The fans are paying his wages he should never be disrespectful to them.

[Devil's advocaat 1,281]

True, the fans are paying his wages, but fans can't dish out abuse and then go all snowflake when the player being abused gestures back IMO. The guys goals and assists this season have been very important to us.

[onevision 1,454]

He can tell me to schhhhhh all he wants so long as he is sticking the ball in the pokey more often than missing....

[pete 2,499]

1 hour ago, Devil's advocaat said:

True, the fans are paying his wages, but fans can't dish out abuse and then go all snowflake when the player being abused gestures back IMO. The guys goals and assists this season have been very important to us.

It is true what David Edgar said on his Pod yesterday. Windass looks it up on social media it was not on the park he was abused it was on social media. He should not take his fights on social media on to the park because it is probably people who have never seen the inside of Ibrox and could even be tims. Given their addiction to us it most likely is the majority.

[ian1964 10,431]

Flashing Rangers fans the V-sign cost me two weeks wages but I won them over and so can Josh Windass says Cammy Fraser

Fraser relives the infamous day he took on the Rangers support and admits he has sympathy for under-fire Windass.

Flicking two fingers at the Rangers support lost Cammy Fraser a fortnight’s wages and now he reckons it could cost Josh Windass the biggest round in history.

Fraser once took on the Follow Follow brigade – literally single-handedly – and lived to tell the tale of a dark afternoon in the depths of December 1984.

At the age of 60 and more than 30 years later he can finally raise a chuckle as the events of Tuesday night at Firhill brought them all back to mind.

It was choirboy stuff in comparison to Fraser’s antics after he grabbed the breakthrough in a 2-0 win over St Mirren, running down the side of the Govan Stand and celebrating by giving it the Harvey Smith.

There are striking parallels between then and now, not least the challenge Rangers faced in trying to establish a decent title challenge against Celtic and Aberdeen.

The Gers fans reacted by grumbling loud and Fraser, like Windass today, became the focus of their frustrations.

The former Dundee star said: “Windass is the boo-boy just now and he’s getting it tight, which seems strange to me because I saw the Fraserburgh game last week and he looks half decent.

“However, football fans can be fickle – they either like you or don’t and you’ve got to learn to live with it. The boy was obviously frustrated but it’s how he gets out of it now that’s the issue.

“He can continue to score goals and play well – or he might have to take 40,000 of them out for a drink and give them a right good bevvy.”

Dundonian Fraser was signed by Jock Wallace from his Dens Park favourites in the summer of 1984 but they weren’t salad days for a team struggling to keep pace with Celtic as well as the emerging New Firm.

They finished fourth in the Premier League in 1985 and fifth the following season, prompting owner Lawrence Marlborough to sanction chief executive David Holmes to bring in Graeme Souness and
revolutionise the club’s fortunes.

Fraser bore the brunt of fan frustration as they toiled against Saints before he scored then set off on his controversial celebration.

He said: “I made the gesture but it wasn’t only me who felt like that. The whole team felt the same way and it had been building up for weeks.

“I apologised afterwards – big Jock made me! It cost me a couple of weeks’ wages even though Jock said he hadn’t seen it – but it was worth it.

“It was water off a duck’s back. The punters came back on my side eventually. My team-mates supported me at the time – they felt the pressure too. They didn’t say I was wrong.

“They felt the same way I did – it was just I had the nuts to do what I did. I was taking one for the team. Boys such as Davie Cooper and Bobby Russell were loved by the fans so it was easier to shout at guys such as me.

“On reflection it was stupid to do what I did. If you are a professional you shouldn’t make gestures at the fans. The punters have every right to say what they want even if it’s sometimes a bit off.

“I’m not proud of what I did. If anyone from my family did it today I’d be disgusted.

“I can’t even remember if big Jock put me on the transfer list in the aftermath of it all.

“I had a great relationship with Jock always but there was such a revolving door at the club at the time. One minute you were in the team and the next you were on your way out.”

Fraser’s fortunes were transformed with the arrival of Souness in April 1986.

Nine out of 10 Rangers fans would have tipped the so-called journeyman for the off immediately but he didn’t just survive, he prospered.

He said: “Souness was a player and then some. We travelled to Spurs for a pre-season friendly that first summer and he was looking for someone to play wide right but who wasn’t a winger.

“He told me the position was mine if I proved myself against Spurs and he was as good as his word. It was easier to play with the players he brought in.

“He broke up the cliques as well. Ibrox was quite a cliquey wee place before his arrival.

“When it comes to the crunch I’m a Dundee man but I have a lot to thank Rangers for, not least a couple of League Cups and a Premier League winners’ medal.”

Now Fraser has urged Windass to keep his head down, throw his hands above his head the next time he scores and hope he can end fans’ frustration by leading Rangers to better days.

He said: “Graeme Murty seems to be taking Rangers down the right road but it will take a while and the fans have grown a little frustrated.

“Windass is maybe bearing the brunt of that and I only hope it doesn’t come to the point he can’t take any more or feels the best place for him to play is England.

“He certainly looks good enough. He can play at a higher level and a move down there might be at the back of his mind.

“Rangers fans don’t like being second best. If they’re not winning convincingly with 90 per cent
possession they’re not always happy – but football isn’t always so perfect.

“They have been struggling to watch what’s in front of them at times in recent seasons but it’s only by pulling together on the field and off they can get to where they want to be.”

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/flashing-rangers-fans-v-sign-11990073

[der Berliner 3,273]

Quote

The former Dundee star said: “Windass is the boo-boy just now and he’s getting it tight, which seems strange to me because I saw the Fraserburgh game last week and he looks half decent.

That's the point. If he'd put a shift in like Holt and Morelos for the full 90 mins, he would be very decent. IMHO, we signed Docherty not because of his qualities alone, but also to give Windass some tougher competition for a starting place.

[craig 5,199]

27 minutes ago, der Berliner said:

That's the point. If he'd put a shift in like Holt and Morelos for the full 90 mins, he would be very decent. IMHO, we signed Docherty not because of his qualities alone, but also to give Windass some tougher competition for a starting place.

See, I don't get this though.  We (not you dB, but generally) talk about players having to put a "shift in" to be better, but that, to me at least, has been proven to not necessarily be the case.

 

When Messi broke through at Barcelona he would track back and help defensively - but in the last 2 or 3 years he does virtually nothing defensively and just wanders around the pitch (if you watch him he looks like he is the laziest player to ever have played the game - just walking around doing nothing) but then he gets the ball, or spots a space, and is explosive and devastating.

 

I would argue that if Messi were asked to "put more of a shift in" he would actually be LESS impactful on a game, not more.

 

Putting a shift in and being better are not necessarily correlated - it depends on the player, position and even team-mates.  Given Windass has been playing through the middle of late, playing in the "10" I would argue that Windass putting a shift in isn't as important to a Holt or Goss putting a shift in because playing that "10" is about picking up the spaces when in possession AND when not in possession, though applying some pressure to opponents when in the vicinity.

 

Windass is no Messi, that much we obviously know.  But playing that "10" position requires common sense, not just a "blood and snotters, up and at em, get in aboot them" mentality.

[Darthter 542]

16 minutes ago, craig said:

See, I don't get this though.  We (not you dB, but generally) talk about players having to put a "shift in" to be better, but that, to me at least, has been proven to not necessarily be the case.

 

When Messi broke through at Barcelona he would track back and help defensively - but in the last 2 or 3 years he does virtually nothing defensively and just wanders around the pitch (if you watch him he looks like he is the laziest player to ever have played the game - just walking around doing nothing) but then he gets the ball, or spots a space, and is explosive and devastating.

 

I would argue that if Messi were asked to "put more of a shift in" he would actually be LESS impactful on a game, not more.

 

Putting a shift in and being better are not necessarily correlated - it depends on the player, position and even team-mates.  Given Windass has been playing through the middle of late, playing in the "10" I would argue that Windass putting a shift in isn't as important to a Holt or Goss putting a shift in because playing that "10" is about picking up the spaces when in possession AND when not in possession, though applying some pressure to opponents when in the vicinity.

 

Windass is no Messi, that much we obviously know.  But playing that "10" position requires common sense, not just a "blood and snotters, up and at em, get in aboot them" mentality.

Exactly what I was saying earlier.

Ultimately, it's no use a player (take Miller for example), putting in "a shift" with no practical output or result.  We could have 10 guys running about the pitch, busting a gut but not scoring or winning matches - so whats the point???

 

It's all about end product.  

[der Berliner 3,273]

With "shift" I did not solely mean "running his socks off", but staying "alert and concentrated" for the 90 mins you are out on the pitch too. Here Windass needs to work on himself and that's what Murty has alluded to. Else someone will take the No. 10 role off him soon enough. That's not Windass bashing, solely pointing out what he should focus on.