David Bates has signed with Hamburg

[Darthter 542]

6 minutes ago, JohnMc said:

Darther, football isn't like 'normal' work, and you must know that. There is little point in making comparisons between professional footballers and call centre workers or joiners. 

I disagree....Players are employees, doing a particular job - it just so happens that their job is playing football.  Don't try & turn it into something that it's not.

Are to simply bow down to player demands now, and offer them whatever contract terms they wish simply because they might turn out good????

 

McLeod, McKay etc....how are they developing???  They will be on much improved contracts that we could offer them, yet don't appear to be playing any better.....

 

In the normal workplace, if someone is doing well they may get rewarded with a small percentage increase in their wage.....the may get offered a much increased wage with another employer - exactly how does that differ from football???  The only difference the the overall value of the wage/increase.

[craig 5,199]

1 hour ago, JohnMc said:

To an extent I agree. However, Russell Martin isn't playing for nothing, neither is Murphy or Alves or Dorrans. If we'd taken some of their salaries and offered them to McKay, Wilson and Bates would be worse off today? Gilmour clearly had his head turned by the bright lights and yime will tell just how he develops, but the rest could have stayed I think. 

Gilmour had his head turned by more than just the bright lights... the rumoured 14k a week would have turned any 16 yr old's head too......

[der Berliner 3,287]

4 hours ago, JohnMc said:

I understand all that, however surely his first choice was to stay and play for Rangers and if he's earning that kind of salary then a deal shouldn't have been beyond us I'd have thought. In the end he needs replaced, as does Wilson, and there's no guarantee those brought in will be better or cheaper. In the end there seems little point in having a youth system and scouting if we let half of them leave for nothing. 

Well, Bates was recruited more or less as a first team player from Raith Rovers less than 2 years ago. But I understand your point. The greatest problem many of these youngsters have to make their mark in the first team is probably based on our demands. Look at what people want. Managers see and know that and bring people in (well, they try to) who can live up to those demands. Murty started off testing and trialing his trusted youngsters, yet, when getting the chance, he splashed money on "veteran quality folk" (mostly in wages). It is frustrating to see people like Barjonas, Atakayi  or Hardie getting the odd minute, showing up reasonably, yet being supplanted as soon as a Goss, Cummings or Murphy become available. And in the end, as the Scottish market is as poor as it gets, these probably well-talented chaps end up at lesser clubs and stay at a mediocre level. Tom Walsh et al. What would do us and them well is having a feeder team or a Swifts side in the lower leagues, where all our youngsters are constantly tested at a competitive level. As it stands, you have to be extraordinary to make your mark in the Rangers first team, or you show up well in times of dire need.

[JohnMc 2,488]

4 hours ago, Darthter said:

I disagree....Players are employees, doing a particular job - it just so happens that their job is playing football.  Don't try & turn it into something that it's not.

Are to simply bow down to player demands now, and offer them whatever contract terms they wish simply because they might turn out good????

 

McLeod, McKay etc....how are they developing???  They will be on much improved contracts that we could offer them, yet don't appear to be playing any better.....

 

In the normal workplace, if someone is doing well they may get rewarded with a small percentage increase in their wage.....the may get offered a much increased wage with another employer - exactly how does that differ from football???  The only difference the the overall value of the wage/increase.

Really Darther? C'mon, you simply can't compare professional football to 'normal' work no matter how hard you try. You can compare it to 'showbiz' or music maybe but not anything that you or I would recognise as 'work'. I don't know what you do for a living but I'm willing to bet no one scouted you to do it when you were still at primary school, you didn't have a succession of peers and adults telling you how fantastic you were going to be all through your early teens and no one offered you £100k a year plus to do it when you were 18. It is in no sense of the word a "normal workplace" and players asking to double, triple or multiply by ten their salary happens fairly regularly. It's a short career, it's ridiculously overpaid and far too much importance is placed on it, but it is what it is and that is most certainly not normal. 

 

[JohnMc 2,488]

3 hours ago, craig said:

Gilmour had his head turned by more than just the bright lights... the rumoured 14k a week would have turned any 16 yr old's head too......

It would have turned this 47 year old's head! 

[JohnMc 2,488]

10 minutes ago, der Berliner said:

Well, Bates was recruited more or less as a first team player from Raith Rovers less than 2 years ago. But I understand your point. The greatest problem many of these youngsters have to make their mark in the first team is probably based on our demands. Look at what people want. Managers see and know that and bring people in (well, they try to) who can live up to those demands. Murty started off testing and trialing his trusted youngsters, yet, when getting the chance, he splashed money on "veteran quality folk" (mostly in wages). It is frustrating to see people like Barjonas, Atakayi  or Hardie getting the odd minute, showing up reasonably, yet being supplanted as soon as a Goss, Cummings or Murphy become available. And in the end, as the Scottish market is as poor as it gets, these probably well-talented chaps end up at lesser clubs and stay at a mediocre level. Tom Walsh et al. What would do us and them well is having a feeder team or a Swifts side in the lower leagues, where all our youngsters are constantly tested at a competitive level. As it stands, you have to be extraordinary to make your mark in the Rangers first team, or you show up well in times of dire need.

I don't disagree with anything you've said. 

Really the only point I've been trying to make is that it seems negligent to keep losing the rare young players we bring through. Bates is just the latest example of a pattern. 

[Darthter 542]

19 minutes ago, JohnMc said:

Really Darther? C'mon, you simply can't compare professional football to 'normal' work no matter how hard you try. You can compare it to 'showbiz' or music maybe but not anything that you or I would recognise as 'work'. I don't know what you do for a living but I'm willing to bet no one scouted you to do it when you were still at primary school, you didn't have a succession of peers and adults telling you how fantastic you were going to be all through your early teens and no one offered you £100k a year plus to do it when you were 18. It is in no sense of the word a "normal workplace" and players asking to double, triple or multiply by ten their salary happens fairly regularly. It's a short career, it's ridiculously overpaid and far too much importance is placed on it, but it is what it is and that is most certainly not normal. 

 

How a person gets into a job is irrelevant, they still adhere to the same employment laws as every other occupation.  Yes the actual numbers are crazy compared to "normal" occupations, but they are still contracted employees of a Ltd company.

The point is that the club recognised that he was doing a decent job and offered him a renewed contract on greatly improved terms.  The player felt he deserved even better terms, which Rangers didn't agree with....Hamburg did.

[Darthter 542]

21 minutes ago, JohnMc said:

Really the only point I've been trying to make is that it seems negligent to keep losing the rare young players we bring through. Bates is just the latest example of a pattern. 

Totally agree with the sentiment....but unfortunately we simply can't compete financially with other countries/team.....

[ian1964 10,448]

All our young players are available to other clubs, if they want to go then they will go

[pete 2,499]

I hate when people say footballers only have a short career so they have to have made their money. Why should a footballer not have to find another job like other people do. When computers came in did anyone say the administrative workers who kept cupboards loads of files have to make a fortune because their work was finishing. Players can become coaches, media, Gym instructors, They don't have to be able to retire at 32.