JohnMc

The society you live in decides Gaffer, this isn't a hard concept to grasp, and it's already decided on this matter. And I didn't suggest anything of the fucking kind (sorry for offending you there). If you can't understand why describing someone who is gay as "not a normal human" is more offensive than calling someone from Barcelona 'Spanish' then I can't help you. Yes, I've friends who work in the health service and they've spoken about the language used to describe various groups in society. It's most certainly not a term that is universally described as offensive though, but it's being dropped from official usage. It's nothing like as loaded a term as 'homo' is. Language is fluid, and none more so than English, the meaning of words changes, sometimes over relatively short periods of time, That comes as no surprise. Society decided Gaffer, the politicians we elect, the media we consume, the law-makers we entrust, that's who. No one decided you can't use the word 'elderly'. It's a collective noun and very, very different from describing a gay man as a 'homo' Gaffer, you can surely see that. Are you really unaware of the barbaric acts that the LGBT community suffered in the recent past? Of the active discrimination they suffered, open hatred based on nothing but ignorance and fear? You simply can't compare that to being over 65, from Bilbao or even being a Rangers supporter.

Yeah, I did, fair enough. But we're agreed that discriminating against people because of their sexual orientation is a bad thing, right? And the use of words and terms that are derogatory and offensive to them should be discouraged too, yeah? The rest is a strawman. See I'm cool with people having different views from me, I'm not backwards in expressing my disagreement with some views, as you might have noticed, so I've no problem with other people doing the same. Indeed I quite enjoy it sometimes. It was Anchorman who left the site, not me. I don't think he should have, it was an over-reaction in my opinion, but I can see why Pete's position on here as a 'mod' gave his words more authority and so carried more offence. Pete's explained and apologised, for me that's enough.

I could see how a Basque or a Catalan might not be happy at being described as Spanish, or a Portuguese even, but what others from the Iberian Peninsula feel this way? It's a poor comparison anyway, as is the 'elderly' one. Being Spanish, or old, wasn't illegal in Scotland until 1980. As far as I know no one was ever forcibly admitted to hospital and treated as being mentally ill for being over 65 or from Valencia. I've read the thread again and I can't see where anyone told Pete, or anyone else, they weren't "allowed" certain opinions. Indeed, we're currently 8 pages into this thread which suggests this is actually being discussed and debated. I don't speak for Anchorman, he was clearly angry at Pete's post and let him know that. He didn't ask him to be banned though. The fact Pete's a 'mod' and comes across as a pretty decent bloke certainly made his post all the more surprising to me. Pete apologised to Anchorman and further explained his choice of words. I don't think he should be banned for it and I believe him when he says he didn't realise the word was offensive. As for how you 'keep up to speed' with social norms I find myself wondering how anyone is able not to keep up to speed with this. I mean open a paper, watch the news, go online, read a book, have a wide circle of friends, it's not hard. Discriminating against people on the basis of their sexual orientation is illegal in this country Gaffer, if Pete, or anyone else, called their co-worker a 'homo' they'd almost certainly face a reprimand. You might not like that, you might think that's an infringement of your free speech, but currently the law, and pretty much every political party in the UK except the DUP and UKIP, doesn't agree.

Unfortunately mate it's English we tend to use around here. You're up to speed now though so looks like the Equality Network partnership has its first success!

The Crimson Forehead, love it. You won't read a better piece on Rangers or Scottish football this month. There are some superb lines in that. Well done.

Well they are clearly suggesting that Dunfermline have some sort of paper trail that implicates them and, I assume, Rangers in some sort of cheating. It's quite an accusation and I can see why they won't make it publicly because they'd need to prove it or be sued into oblivion. They seem quite sure of themselves on this but then that's nothing new. There was no doubt that Gavin Masterton, one time owner of Dunfermline, and David Murray were close. Jimmy Calderwood has spoken publicly about David Murray's influence in securing him the manager's job at East End Park for example. Some Tims have been convinced for years that Masterton was behind trying to put them out of business when he was at the Bank Of Scotland, well it's easier to blame him than the people running the club I suppose. Murray was one of the most influential figures in Scottish business circles for two decades. He knew everyone worth knowing, he probably did business with many of them too. But, how you'd go about convincing 11 footballers to throw a game, or several games, and then keep quiet about it for years later, well I struggle to believe even some as once powerful as Murray could manage that. Masterton did some murky business things, they've already been reported, even if it turns out he did some of them with Sir Dave, it's a big jump to anything else. I say let them work themselves into a tumescent state over this, any climax might be more difficult to achieve though.

Reading Mr O'Rourke's missives I can't be the only one hoping that one day he gets given a board position at Celtic.

It wasn't aimed at you, that's why I edited as it could easily be read that way. I'm not sure how quoting lift music at me relates to anything frankly, but I guess that's just the way it is... Are you suggesting that societal attitudes to gay rights have changed for the worse FS? When you were born it was still illegal in the UK to be gay. We've had posters on this thread say "normal human beings" and "homo", I can accept that not everyone moves at the same pace but there are glaciers moving at a faster pace than some of us it seems.

Christ, just when I thought this thread couldn't get any worse you go and quote Bruce Hornsby lyrics to me. That's a new low for Gersnet... Getting older is no excuse for deciding you no longer want to learn, you no longer want to understand what's happening around you and you no longer want to accept change, even change that has almost no bearing at all upon your life except you need to modify the language you use to describe some people. There's a hundred things people in their fifties today thought was acceptable when they were children that they know isn't today. I call bullshit on lazy, selfish ignorance being used to hide deep-seated prejudice. Quote Pete Townshend next time. EDIT - I don't mean 'you' specifically FS, it's a collective 'you'.

If anything proved the need for Rangers to sign up to the Equality Network it's some of the posts in this thread. Bloody hell. I've never bought the generational excuse for someone using racist, bigoted or homophobic language. Being old isn't a good excuse.

I'm sorry to see Waghorn leave and wish him all the best in the future. I can only assume this has been sanctioned as we've someone else lined up because we're weak up front.

It's difficult to judge today's performance. Motherwell had a load of new players, it'll be weeks before we can see if they're a top six side or relegation fodder. I thought we started well and for the first 20 minutes or so looked pretty decent, attacking at pace and closing down Motherwell. From then on the game was more even and Moult should have equalised, it was an open goal albeit coming at pace and an awkward height. We're weak on the flanks and Motherwell figured that out eventually and started to exploit it. Candeias and Windass need to work harder defensively for me, their five in midfield started to overrun our four. Cardosa made a very good tackle towards the end when Motherwell broke with men over. Their attacker got a bit of stick for it but I thought Cardosa held him up before sticking a leg in and knocking it out. Windass had a good first half but might as well have stayed inside at half time. I actually quite liked Herrera on today's showing. He works really hard and had decent movement, we need someone to play alongside him though, Miller hasn't got a full season starting every match in him I don't think. Whereas I thought Morelos looked like he'd won a competition and the prize was to get a game when he came on. He was only on for ten minutes so I'll reserve judgement, but I watched the ball run past him at one point and wondered just what Ryan Hardie has to do to get into the match day squad. Dorrans and Wallace played well, the defence will need a few more games together before any judgement. I was puzzled by the substitutions, Wilson for Miller at 2-1 was taking a bit of a chance for me and inviting pressure. I'd have stuck on Holt for Miller, it was in midfield we were struggling. Despite all that we won, away, and on balance we were the better side. I think last season we'd have dropped at least two points in that match. I think Hibs will be a harder test for us, looking forward to it all the same.

Edinburgh will be nice when it's finished... Glasgow and Edinburgh are two very different cities and it's difficult to make a comparison other than through personal preference. As a born and bred Glaswegian I have to disagree with the assertion that Glasgow has more cultural and musical events than any city outside London. Although I did think that myself once. All of the main provincial UK cities have fairly vibrant cultural scenes, Manchester, Liverpool, Sheffield and Liverpool are very well served by the arts and music and university towns like Oxford, Cambridge and Durham can compete with most places in the world culturally despite their size. You need to be blind not to see how incredible the Edinburgh new town is, the Princes Street Gardens are not only an amazing monument to the foresight and genius of the city planners of the day but even now make the centre of Edinburgh unique. The castle dominating the skyline and the constantly evolving lanes, closes and streets of the old town make a visit to Edinburgh a constantly surprising experience. During the festival there are few cities in the world can compete with Edinburgh for atmosphere and choice of things to do. That said I've never found Edinburgh to be a friendly place. It's a cliche but no less true for that. It's not a working class city and so while it looks nice and pretty it lacks warmth and heart. Glasgow has many, many faults, but it's a friendly town to strangers and visitors. By and large Glaswegians are more open and welcoming, people will simply start a conversation with you in a shop or a cafe and that doesn't happen in lots of other places. I've only really experienced that level of friendliness in Liverpool and Belfast, both cities with similar industrial backgrounds to Glasgow. Glasgow also benefits from its position, a half hour drive to Loch Lomond or train journey, an hour to Inverary, slightly more to Glen Coe. The West Highlands are among the most beautiful places on earth and Glasgow is their city too. Glaswegians are proud of Glasgow in a way that's entirely unwarranted. We don't like people putting the city down despite the very many social and cultural problems we have. Parts of the east end have the male life expectancy of a third world country and anyone who has had to visit the Royal's casualty department at midnight any day of the week will see first hand the very worst of the city. We have some horrendous architectural eye-sores and many of the new buildings in the city centre won't last 30 years before being pulled down and replaced by some other utilitarian cheapest possible solution. That being said I've chosen to live here and raise my family here. I've an extended family around me, the city does have many positive things in its favour if you are raising a family. It has some good schools, many brilliant parks, cinemas, sports clubs and facilities, hospitals, libraries, theatres and easy access to some wonderful places. Also, according to my wife, it has brilliant shopping, not something I'd put in the credit column myself but each to their own. Lastly, and most importantly, it has Rangers, so, you know, the argument kinda ends here.

Here's a surprisingly good account of the match from the Herald - http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/14094342.Ibrox_1945__When_Rangers_tackled_the_might_of_Moscow_Dynamo/ The Russians hadn't quite figured out substitutions yet... I get excited just reading about that match. It must have an incredible atmosphere.

Great picture. Soviet clubs play a prominent part in our history. It's hard to comprehend how important their tour of the UK was greeted at the end of WW2. Our result, against 12 men, showed how powerful we were at the time. Obviously they were our opposition in Barcelona decades later when we won the Cup Winners Cup. I used to work with a guy who spoke about going to Glasgow Airport to welcome Rangers back from a tour of the Soviet Union in the early sixties. Apparently the support invaded the runway to welcome the side and then blocked the Paisley Road back into Glasgow.

Great preview, well done.

So what's Jon Daly's job at Hearts? I didn't know he was there.

Spanish is a bit different though. It's not like German or Italian where few other countries outside of its main country speak it. Even in Spain English isn't widely understood. Spanish is spoken widely across the world so they don't rely on English language 'culture' in the same way. Most Spanish speaking people can't understand or speak English beyond a handful of words. Although its proximity to the US might lead you to think English would be widely spoken and understood in Mexico that isn't the case. Most Mexicans don't speak English, only around 15% of Mexicans can speak and understand English. They are usually either highly educated elites or live in towns on the American border. Mexican education actually focussed on teaching its people to learn Spanish as for many it wasn't their first language. Indigenous languages were widely spoken, and immigrant 'Spanish' often came from Catalonia, Galicia or the Basque country and didn't speak Castilian Spanish either. It's unlikely Carlos Pena, who doesn't come from a border town, even understood much English before arriving. The language is one thing but the culture is entirely another. If only one of our summer signings struggles to settle and adapt I'll be pleasantly surprised. It's still early for Pena, with a bit of support form the club, which I'm sure they're giving him, and the right attitude from him he could still become an important player for us.

It wasn't that long ago there was a clamour from some for Cathro to be appointed as Rangers manager. It must really hurt some people to know that Kris Boyd really does understand football better than them. I now a few who are really struggling to come to terms with that. For what it's worth Cathro, and I assume his successor, didn't decide who the club signs or sells, Levein does. I'm sure they are consulted but it's Levein's decision. Hearts will almost certainly sit on Walker until they are made an offer they can't refuse or the transfer window is about to shut.

I'm not sure who 'GS' is but I'm going to assume you're paying me a compliment, you know, in the spirit of glasses being half full and all that.

I don't think I posted on the St Johnstone bounce game thread either, although I might be wrong. I didn't attend or see any of the matches unlike those against Progres, Celtic, Aberdeen... I think I did post on the Watford thread before the match along the lines of 'bounce game results don't matter' and I do think that. No one wants to get turned over but I think players are holding something back in these matches, using them to get fit, try something new, that type of thing so results need to be seen in context. For what it's worth the draw with Marseille and the win at Sheffield are pleasing results and reading the comments of those who did see both matches suggest we looked greatly improved. I'm delighted by that. I don't particularly enjoy being the forum curmudgeon and I take no pleasure in questioning the ability of our manager. Let's see what the next couple of weekends bring, but I repeat no one will be happier than me to eat humble pie where our manager is concerned. I still have my doubts but everyone suggested he needed time to get his players together, I'm doing just that. Thanks for your concern though...

Surely the same thing can be achieved by putting the players out on loan in the second tier? There's a lot of opposition to 'reserve' sides in the lower leagues and I can sympathise with it. In end it can't just be about playing regular football, there must be more to it than that. Ryan Hardie has played 50 senior first team games and scored 18 goals, a decent return by any measurement, yet looks further from our first team than ever now. A 20 year old, six foot 2 inch 'natural' goal scorer who has been in our system for years should be getting the side built around him, yet would any of us be surprised if he was released in the next 12 months? It's really frustrating, what are we doing wrong? McKay was going the same way until Warburton arrived, is it all down to belief and being given a chance? Surely not.

Poor finishing from both sides on display, should have finished 7-3. Here's the thing for us to figure out, if those two teams met five years ago at under 15 level the teams would have been much closer, indeed the Rangers side might well have been better. What happens to our players between the ages of 15 to 19 that doesn't happen to the Dutch (or the Italians, the Germans, the French, the Croatians....)? They've got just as many 'cultural distractions' in Holland as Scotland.

The Tom English/Jolyon Maugham exchange was actually very funny. The later follow up by the previously sainted Rangers Tax Case and their public insistence that they knew more about it than a QC specialising in tax law was the icing on the cake. It simply further underlined how hugely out of their depth most sports journalists have been on EBTs. No wonder, it's a highly specialist field, it took the Supreme Court to decide their status, this is points of law way, way above the heads of the vast majority of us. Tom English can probably explain to you how the British Lions tactics were wrong in the 1st test against New Zealand and he's probably got a good insight into how Glasgow Warriors will fare under their new coach. He might even have opinions worth listening to regarding how the football in Scotland might go this season. But he knows no more about tax law than anyone else who has had to fill out a self assessment form. I wonder if, say a high profile player picks up an injury, English will tell the doctor his diagnosis of the player is wrong? Will he look over the medical records and suggest a different type of surgery perhaps, maybe changes in rehab and physio work? It's the arrogance of them, instead if admitting they really don't understand 99% of what has happened they pretend they do and get shown up for it publicly. He defended his position later too, it's laughable. Edit - Maugham published this earlier for the hard of thinking. Brilliant - https://waitingfortax.com/2017/07/27/a-short-note-on-tax-law-for-rangers-and-celtic-fans/

If he worked at the Record it shouldn't be hard to discover if it's true. I agree entirely that the club should be looking into this, but I'd do it publicly so he and they know we're watching.