bmck

That right and wrong dont change is very hard to argue. Even granting that TBB isnt wrong (which it isnt), and singing it is a Good (which it is), you are in a world of competing Goods. The purpose of singing is to support the team; if what you are singing gets your team points docked, undoing their efforts, then its not good. This game was taken, essentially, from the fans hand as soon as the club agreed it was Bad. But we live in a state where the Famine Song is actually illegal; singing it makes you a criminal. What can you expect.. would it be right to sing it in defiance? Probably. Is it expedient? No. Is it one of those cases where the powers-that-be are so corrupt that you do it whatever the consequences - like not gassing jews or whatever - probably not.

hardly shown on the bbc. disgraceful. bbc coverage as a whole is just so awful.

thats foooking amazing though. bring back the billy boys!

"there were no good old days / these are the good old days"

I dont get how we could have applied with Manchester etc for the supercasino, if we didnt have planning permission.

Have to say, N_L hasnt said anything controversial (othe than contradicting a know rangers-hater in the press) and doesnt stand to gain a thing from lying (other than attention, but who would want our attention?). I have no reason to think he is lying.

Sounds immense pete! On yersel!

Anyone'd be forgiven for thinking your mind was made up on the issue MF :spl:

Embarrasing not to know that (or did I really just fake ignorance so we could promote the museum?)

I dunno; beauty goes with beauty. In making stuff sympathetic to its surrounds you run the danger of what happens quite a bit in my area - where new buildings are a sort of ape of victorian townhouses / tenemants, but with crappy modern materials. I think the best of every age can sit alongside the best of every other age. The question is really whether the scottish parliament building is the best. I do like it; think it will stand the test of time well. Haha, yeah, though that might be a bit more extreme.

I must admit, it does look a bit from-a-scheme-but-with-sticks in places.

I like to celebrate the modern. Would you rather another faux-victorian lets-pretend-modernity-hasnt-happened piece? It's only so nice on the inside because of the shape on the outside

I like Jung, but I dislike his approach because it tries to incorporate irrationality into science, rather than art. I'm not a big fan of psychology. I prefer the roots that produced his sort of thought like Kierkegaard, Nietzsche etc. But that's another tangent

So the 'same contacts in London' thing is nonsense? Who would've thought That's good to know. I'm not sure if I want him in, but the longer he's in the more interest at very least is being drummed up.

Seems to be quite widely reported that Ellis is out. http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/home-news/33m-rangers-takeover-bid-on-the-brink-of-collapse-1.1014488 Are we happy about this?

I'm not entirely sure what you're talking about, but I do like your old uncle's philosophy :spl:

Why does everyone hate the parliament building? It's an immense piece of architecture! Great article, btw.

For me, victory is everything. So, I'm on your side on that issue. Getting to the UEFA final while pissing off europe in its entirety is one of my most savoured memories.

Sorry it's a bit late. It wasn't a twelve hour munch, I started studying and forgot all about it Well, obviously there's looking and there's looking. But, I suppose in some real sense they should be. You have to aim for a bit more than what's probable. No, not really. You just think excess of emotion should be moderated by facts. By slipping in imperatives like 'should' and framing people with expectations that defy facts as 'naive' you're implying, rightly or wrongly - I think it depends on the context, I'm not condemning - that there should be some strict correlation between what's really going to happen and what the fans should think is going to happen, and I'm not sure it follows. And the question is whether fans - or, perhaps all fans, or even most fans - should have realistic expectations. I tend to think realism is for people in power, and it's the people's job to create a tide of expectation that pushes that necessary realism in the right direction. Realism, as any literature student knows, is highly subjective - if the owners, say, aren't being realistic about how we can best progress to meet expectations, they are all of a sudden realistic about profits, and who deserves bigger bonuses and whether they should be spending more time with their family or other business endeavours. This is highly simplistic, obviously, but I think it shows there's different realisms for different situations. The problem is, if you start being too realistic you get to cut the proportion of knee jerk reactions, but often at the expense of the expectations and demands at the start that drive us on. Do you think Aberdeen would get as many results off us if their fans didn't go absolutely mental every time we gubbed them despite the statistical probability of the whole affair? I'm not sure. I think the managerial staff know there's always going to be a proportion of knee jerk reactions because they are at a big club, with big club vanity. So we shouldn't be promoting being sensible about everything for their sake, because in reality we don't have that much of a say. The only time you get to protests etc is when enough sensible people have been convinced there's a problem. Don't get me wrong, I don't side with these people, and take approximately your view - if people say "Walter Smith should be sacked because we didn't win the champions league" I'm going to say "Don't be ridiculous", but it's important, I think, that there's ebbing and flowing with this sort of thing because somewhere in the swirl there's a roughly sensible opinion but if the pragmatic people became too dominant then there's no demand. In a way, yeah. One of the joys of following football is that there's barely a sensible thing about it. In a world of rationality and sensibleness and moderation you get to shout and sing and demand triumph and bemoan failure and all that sort of thing. I don't think we should agree with ridiculous aspiration, but I do think there's something to be said for it at least being prevelant.

im going to munch, shall reply shortly.

It never fails to amaze me how the most objectively minded people so subtly try and hardwire their subjective outlook into their arguments. For example, it doesnt follow at all that just because we wont win the league every year we shouldnt expect to. The hidden premise is that fans should be pragmatists, or should necessarily bend their expectations to meet objective facts; as though they were scientists attuning themselves to the most statistically likely outcome. This may be healthy in some contexts, but equally it doesnt follow any less that fans should ignore statistics and unliterally demand success as noisily as possible at all times, to ensure those in charge of the club dont lower expectations, and in doing so make it more likely that we have period of Streuthian or Smithian dominance. Why shouldnt fans demand we aim to progress in Europe? That question cant be answered by looking to the past or to facts or to statistics; its a question of subjective values. Should fans be demanding? Should they be pragmatists? Should they sing a lot? Should they be subdued? Even if European sucess is never going to happen, by shouting about it you state your ambitions and ensure those in charge at least know that there is demand. I dont think we will do anything in Europe, but Im not convinced it isnt a fans duty to harp on about these things to keep standards high. Who is to say unrealistic and naive (optimistic and demanding?) arent virtues rather than derogatory in a football fan?

Totally agree with that. I'm not sure another manager could've done significantly more with the same set of players. Because we have big-club vanity, it's just so hard to take results of that sort - but the reality of the finances and the whole situation at the club meant results like that weren't some fluke, or some awful managerial decision. I think we could've played better, but on the whole it probably reflected the difference in quality between the sides.

We saw the OF game in Brum.

Tell the truth, did it give you a big heid?

Haha, this was definitely written by Spiers.