the gunslinger 3,366 Posted July 2, 2014 Share Posted July 2, 2014 Maybe I need to labour the point. Would you rather be like Dundee Utd selling a player for 2M and buy one for almost nothing, or say Barcelona, who bought Zlatan Ibrahimovic for something like €69M all in and then sell him for €24M a year later? That isn't good business or even in the slightest desirable in itself, but I'd love to be in their situation where this can happen without too much worry. You could probably divide by 10 for 20 years ago and be reflective of the top of the market - where we were. It seems the bigger and more successful the club, the bigger the potential for losses on players. It's what happens at the top of the food chain where Rangers used to be, so not something I think we should be ashamed of. That does NOT translate as me thinking we SHOULD buy high and sell low as a deliberate strategy in itself. But conversely I will dread the day as a club that we are more concerned with buying low and selling high than producing a team on the park that wins trophies. To that end I am more concerned about value for money than speculative investment in a player futures market. aren't barca about a billion in debt? 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frankie 8,153 Posted July 2, 2014 Share Posted July 2, 2014 Zalukias has joined on trial and is likely to play in tomorrow night's friendly... 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
the gunslinger 3,366 Posted July 2, 2014 Share Posted July 2, 2014 will do well in first division but i doubt hes good enough for the spl. we also have a huge number of center halves. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frankie 8,153 Posted July 2, 2014 Share Posted July 2, 2014 will do well in first division but i doubt hes good enough for the spl. we also have a huge number of center halves. With Ross Perry moving on last week, we're clearly short of superfluous defenders who are unlikely to feature ahead of first choice pairing. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
calscot 0 Posted July 2, 2014 Share Posted July 2, 2014 It is this very attitude that basically got us in the mess we find ourselves...... I think that's being a bit simplistic and missing some of my point. It's one thing paying a high price for a player if that is the "market value"... I agree that as we are no longer at the top table, this is very important. ..we have a history of paying over that market value in order to bring these types of players to the club. I agree that at first glance that this just seems wrong. However, it ties in with the, "find the right players needed for the team" philosophy that so many agree with. When you want something that someone uniquely appealing to you that is not already for sale, you can't just offer market value. Say you won the lottery and there was a house you really wanted to buy, but is not for sale, you would not likely get it for market value, you would probably have to offer way over the odds to get a happy resident to sell. When you have plenty of money and know what you want, it's easy to over pay to get it. The main trouble with this attitude at Rangers in the past, was that eventually we didn't actually have the money to pay for it, it was paid for on the never never... I think the lesson is not just what you pay but living within your means. When we look to sell on, no-one is willing to match their wages or come anywhere near what we paid - therefore losing our club money. This is always a problem with a team at the top, paying the top wages - more-so in a small country. Souness worked his way round this somewhat, by deliberately buying English internationals (which was a lot easier at the time). Even if they failed at Ibrox, finding a top tier English club to pick them up was hardly a problem. Take Ryan Gould for example......if things go according to play for Sporting Lisbon, they will play/develop him for a couple of seasons, then sell on for an awful lot more than the £3m they have paid - I believe he has a £60m release clause. I would counter that that is speculation and a release clause means nothing - just ask Dundee Utd, or Barcelona with Ibrahimovic's €250M price tag. We sold a kid to Liverpool for £2M and cannily put in huge appearance and sell on fees to move it up to about £7.5M. I don't think we realised much of it. It's all a gamble. Personally, I hope it all comes true for the sake of the Scotland team. We could do with the next Messi. Lee Wallace....signed from Hearts for £1.5m, easily our best player - we were willing to accept £1.2m (I think).....which no-one was willing to offer. I don't think this is a typical example as it's hard to sell a player for millions when he's been playing in the bottom two tiers of Scottish football - the player lacks evidence of quality. It's also incredibly difficult to do any kind of negotiation when you are clearly desperate for money. I would say Arteta also falls into this category. IMHO, it's not so much about spending big, it's about spending wisely - getting in players who will retain value to the club. I can't disagree with that, except that sometimes you pay money for a player at his peak and he'll always be worth a bit less later on. The trick is for the depreciation to be worth what he brings to the team and factored into the decision for buying him, while not breaking the budget. Spending wisely and getting value for money is usually pretty important but it's imperative for us now. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darthter 542 Posted July 2, 2014 Share Posted July 2, 2014 Maybe I need to labour the point. Would you rather be like Dundee Utd selling a player for 2M and buy one for almost nothing, or say Barcelona, who bought Zlatan Ibrahimovic for something like €69M all in and then sell him for €24M a year later? That isn't good business or even in the slightest desirable in itself, but I'd love to be in their situation where this can happen without too much worry. You could probably divide by 10 for 20 years ago and be reflective of the top of the market - where we were. It seems the bigger and more successful the club, the bigger the potential for losses on players. It's what happens at the top of the food chain where Rangers used to be, so not something I think we should be ashamed of. That does NOT translate as me thinking we SHOULD buy high and sell low as a deliberate strategy in itself. But conversely I will dread the day as a club that we are more concerned with buying low and selling high than producing a team on the park that wins trophies. To that end I am more concerned about value for money than speculative investment in a player futures market. We need to remember where we are playing though.....When was the last time a £5m+ player was brought into the Scottish game??? We simply don't have the financial muscle within our game to be paying those sorts of prices and we don't have the asset values to cover the potential debt incurred with bringing those types of players in. Our top league doesn't even have a sponsor FFS!!! We don't have a choice these days. We have to look at resale value of players.....we have to look at bringing in good value, improve them, then move them on @ a profit. Ceptic signed Fraser Forster when he was a 3rd or 4th choice kepper for £2m....now he's being touted for £8.5m and a regular in the England squad. Hooper signed for £2.5m and was sold for £5m. Wanyama signed for £900k and sold for a reported £12.5m. THAT'S how you do transfer business!!!! 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
calscot 0 Posted July 2, 2014 Share Posted July 2, 2014 aren't barca about a billion in debt? Well yeah, that's a fair point but they are probably safer from going bust than Dundee Utd... 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frankie 8,153 Posted July 2, 2014 Share Posted July 2, 2014 Some Zalukias qualities 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
the gunslinger 3,366 Posted July 2, 2014 Share Posted July 2, 2014 With Ross Perry moving on last week, we're clearly short of superfluous defenders who are unlikely to feature ahead of first choice pairing. thats true we were down to 7 there for a minute. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
the gunslinger 3,366 Posted July 2, 2014 Share Posted July 2, 2014 Well yeah, that's a fair point but they are probably safer from going bust than Dundee Utd... i have my doubts on that. utd will be safe for a decade with this money probably. 0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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