Ongoing new manager discussion and speculation

[compo 6,980]

One thing I often wonder about is when a club brings in a new manager most times that results in the present backroom staff getting sacked I know that most of Pedro's lot are gone but for the reason for some kind of continuity between players and new boss would it not be worth a try at keeping the backroom staff some club's might get more out of the new set up ..

Just a thought .

[Darthter 542]

One thing I often wonder about is when a club brings in a new manager most times that results in the present backroom staff getting sacked I know that most of Pedro's lot are gone but for the reason for some kind of continuity between players and new boss would it not be worth a try at keeping the backroom staff some club's might get more out of the new set up ..

Just a thought .

 

I think it's normally just the managers assistants that tend to leave. Specialist coaches - GK, Fitness etc tend to stay.

[JohnMc 2,708]

Ain't that the truth.

 

I have been pondering the 'special qualities' of Scottish football, for some time -all of 5 minutes- and I have identified these traits:

 

-it is physical: you have to, as they say, 'earn the right' to actually play football (man's game, etc.)

-technical coaching is derided (man's game, etc.)

-skill, even modest skill, is the exception rather than the rule (man's game, etc.)

-'parking the bus' is the height of tactical sophistication

-officiating is among the very worst in Europe: in a 3rd world country it would likely be put down to bribery

-it doesn't really have much time for johnny foreigner, with his fancy Dan ideas, practices (man's game, etc.)

-it derides johnny foreigner's idiosyncratic use of English, which it takes to indicate his stupidity/general uselessness

-it thinks that you require to be steeped in it to prosper

-the media subscribe to, support, and preach all of the above

 

Oh, it's 'special', right enough: 'special' in the way that the 'special' Clinic is 'special'.

 

And yet, whilst enjoying your post, to date non-British/Irish managers haven't done well in Scotland. Advocaat won the league and had us playing some fantastic football but he'd a budget so far above every other side in the league. When Celtic did get their act together, and brought in O'Neill, Advocaat was found wanting. Le Guen and more recently Pedro haven't achieved anything.

 

At Celtic Wim Janson won the league against an ageing Rangers side, but it was still a reasonable achievement and Delia won the league but, frankly, a monkey could have managed Celtic to the league title in the seasons we were absent. Venglos was an abject failure.

 

Away from Glasgow, where 'success' might be easier to achieve there are no obvious successes either. Ivan Golac won the cup with Dundee Utd but was poor in the league and was sacked. The Norwegian Aberdeen had was horrendous, nearly got them relegated. Hearts have had a few, Paulo Sergio won the cup but the rest were pretty uninspiring. Motherwell had a Fin who'd done well in Finland but failed in Lanarkshire and Frank Sauzee at Hibs didn't last a season. Paatelainan has had some success but he's almost Scottish he's been here so long.

 

Lastly, Bertie Vogts. No more needs said.

 

So whilst I agree football in this country is lacking something, indeed it's lacking lots, simply bringing in a 'foreign' manager doesn't seem to be the answer. For whatever reason an understanding and experience of football in this country, or at least British football, does seem to be a prerequisite for success if history is anything to go by.

[Rousseau 10,519]

You do need good players to play good football , you can't expect players just to change style and all of them to be good at it. You just say foreign but don't have any names or why they would work. I respect your opinion but don't agree with it.

 

I think They are the perfect example of how wrong your first point is. A manager with a modern style can transform a team. I'm not saying they are all good players, but I believe a manager would transform the team.

 

Yes, I do get annoyed when people say manager X, Y or Z is not right, without any examples to the contrary. To be honest, I don't know. But, I'm not willing to throw my lot in with any old name, that happens to have done a job at another club with very different circumstances. I think Preud'homme would've been a good shout, but I don't know if he's a viable option. Anderlecht destroyed Them in the most recent game -- after they had changed managers -- and I don't think Belgian football is that far ahead of us, in terms of the league -- perhaps their players are better. The Scandanavian managers are quite progressive. I believe there are better options out there than a free British manager.

 

Fair enough; we can agree to disagree.

 

Happy Birthday!

Edited December 19, 2017 by Rousseau

[Bill 13,717]

And yet, whilst enjoying your post, to date non-British/Irish managers haven't done well in Scotland. Advocaat won the league and had us playing some fantastic football but he'd a budget so far above every other side in the league. When Celtic did get their act together, and brought in O'Neill, Advocaat was found wanting. Le Guen and more recently Pedro haven't achieved anything.

 

At Celtic Wim Janson won the league against an ageing Rangers side, but it was still a reasonable achievement and Delia won the league but, frankly, a monkey could have managed Celtic to the league title in the seasons we were absent. Venglos was an abject failure.

 

Away from Glasgow, where 'success' might be easier to achieve there are no obvious successes either. Ivan Golac won the cup with Dundee Utd but was poor in the league and was sacked. The Norwegian Aberdeen had was horrendous, nearly got them relegated. Hearts have had a few, Paulo Sergio won the cup but the rest were pretty uninspiring. Motherwell had a Fin who'd done well in Finland but failed in Lanarkshire and Frank Sauzee at Hibs didn't last a season. Paatelainan has had some success but he's almost Scottish he's been here so long.

 

Lastly, Bertie Vogts. No more needs said.

 

So whilst I agree football in this country is lacking something, indeed it's lacking lots, simply bringing in a 'foreign' manager doesn't seem to be the answer. For whatever reason an understanding and experience of football in this country, or at least British football, does seem to be a prerequisite for success if history is anything to go by.

A well argued position and clearly correct. The one place we could probably benefit from foreign input is the football authorities in Scotland, some people to replace the dimwits and bigots entrenched in the SFA and SPLFL.

 

Edit: ... and refereeing might also be improved with a few foreign imports.

Edited December 19, 2017 by Bill

[Uilleam 5,928]

And yet, whilst enjoying your post, to date non-British/Irish managers haven't done well in Scotland. Advocaat won the league and had us playing some fantastic football but he'd a budget so far above every other side in the league. When Celtic did get their act together, and brought in O'Neill, Advocaat was found wanting. Le Guen and more recently Pedro haven't achieved anything.

 

At Celtic Wim Janson won the league against an ageing Rangers side, but it was still a reasonable achievement and Delia won the league but, frankly, a monkey could have managed Celtic to the league title in the seasons we were absent. Venglos was an abject failure.

 

Away from Glasgow, where 'success' might be easier to achieve there are no obvious successes either. Ivan Golac won the cup with Dundee Utd but was poor in the league and was sacked. The Norwegian Aberdeen had was horrendous, nearly got them relegated. Hearts have had a few, Paulo Sergio won the cup but the rest were pretty uninspiring. Motherwell had a Fin who'd done well in Finland but failed in Lanarkshire and Frank Sauzee at Hibs didn't last a season. Paatelainan has had some success but he's almost Scottish he's been here so long.

 

Lastly, Bertie Vogts. No more needs said.

 

So whilst I agree football in this country is lacking something, indeed it's lacking lots, simply bringing in a 'foreign' manager doesn't seem to be the answer. For whatever reason an understanding and experience of football in this country, or at least British football, does seem to be a prerequisite for success if history is anything to go by.

 

And Scottish/British/Irish managers haven't done very well abroad; and Scottish teams under Scottish/British/Irish managers have, overall, a poor record in Euro-competitions.

The recent Euro finals ( 9 and !4 years ago) were achieved by a very physical side (Bobo Balde a footballer? Anyone?), and Walter Smith's Berlin Wall tactics

 

I think that Scottish fitba' is too crude, and old fashioned, and Scottish players too immersed in that culture for a 'Continental' (a word almost exclusively used sneeringly) to prosper. It's not 'special', it is parochial, introverted, Luddite, stuck in the glaur, and as a result self limiting and self limited. That's the way we like it (Ha Ha Ha Ha), apparently.

[JohnMc 2,708]

And Scottish/British/Irish managers haven't done very well abroad; and Scottish teams under Scottish/British/Irish managers have, overall, a poor record in Euro-competitions.

The recent Euro finals ( 9 and !4 years ago) were achieved by a very physical side (Bobo Balde a footballer? Anyone?), and Walter Smith's Berlin Wall tactics

 

I think that Scottish fitba' is too crude, and old fashioned, and Scottish players too immersed in that culture for a 'Continental' (a word almost exclusively used sneeringly) to prosper. It's not 'special', it is parochial, introverted, Luddite, stuck in the glaur, and as a result self limiting and self limited. That's the way we like it (Ha Ha Ha Ha), apparently.

 

I don't entirely disagree with you, but I do think a level of pragmatism is required, particularly for where our club is just now. There's fixing Scottish football and then there's finding a manager that can make Rangers challenge and ultimately succeed domestically. The former isn't something we can do on our own. I'm not convinced there's any desire to improve Scottish football among the people who actually do have the power to either.

 

The latter is entirely within our gift but I'd be concerned if we appointed a promising, young Italian or Spanish manager for example. At this stage I think we need someone who can hit the ground running, create an indomitable team spirit and bring the game to Celtic who've had it too easy for 18 months or so now. With the disparity in finances we won't be able to buy better players than Celtic so we need to create a better team. To do that we need someone who understands how Scottish and British footballers tick. Like it or not that's who we'll be largely picking from for at least the next couple of years.

 

In terms of dragging Scottish football out of the "glaur" as you beautifully described it that requires a systematic change to our league structure, how our clubs are funded, how we use young players, how we judge 'success' and how we reward it. The next Rangers manager won't be able to affect much, if any, of that.

[Ser Barristan Selmy 222]

As I've said previously, it's a wonder with Scottish football being so enigmatic that pretty much every single side gets pumped at the first hurdle in Europe, often to comical opposition. The fact is we compete in one of the worst leagues in Europe and restricting the search to a pool of crap managers makes no sense.

Edited December 20, 2017 by Ser Barristan Selmy

[Ser Barristan Selmy 222]

Desperate, a manager who has had a good career at the top level in England?

 

Who would you like and why?

I'll let those dreaming about Tony Pulis dream about Pulis; I'll dream about Guardiola. We have as much chance of one as the other.

[Dave M609 100]

There must be a reason we aren't going for anyone, is it true the board have said we aren't going for anyone who isn't in a job and that there are no outstanding candidates

Slaven Bilic, Walter Mazzari, Laurent Blanc, Marcelo Bielsa, Ronald Koeman, Frank De Boer, Thomas Tuchel are all out a job, I realize that some if not all of these guys will be way out of our budget and we are maybe not that attractive a prospect for some managers,, surely they must be speaking to someone.

I know the McInnes thing went TU but surely they had a back up plan, I see Karanka is the favorite with the bookies again and Mark Hughes has now been mentioned because it looks like Pulis is going to get the Stoke job.

The whole thing has become really frustrating, im not sure if the club still has a way they want to set up and play so they are looking for a manager that can work with that style and formation and that's why Mark Allen is pushing ahead with player purchases.