Is The Billy Boys Song Banned?

[compo 6,930]

• Time to stand up and be counted and sing it as it should be sung .

[barca72 440]

From John Stevens( pzj ),

 

http://www.twitlonger.com/show/n_1sqdp90?new_po

What is all the noise about the Billy Boys?

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Again we are witnessing another frenzy in the media & political circles which is raising it's head again surrounding the issue of sectarianism. This of course was & is in response to the repeal of a draconian act which saw football fans criminalised for singing songs.The issue of sectarianism is of course a very ambiguous one as the songs or words that were criminalising football fans had so many & where open to so many interpretations that some of the decisions made by the judicial system were quite simply incredible.

Sectarianism definition '' strongly supporting a particular religious group and not willing to accept other beliefs''

By definition the whole world & all faiths could be described as sectarian according to the Cambridge dictionary definition of the word. But I want to focus on the one song that everybody whether politicos or the Scottish media always turns it's attention on & shines it's particular light on when the issue of sectarianism is raised in Scotland. The Billy Boys.

Now let us be very clear from the outset of the discussion. Some have attempted to associate this song with a certain Billy Fullerton. This is another anachronistic attempt by those who would do anything to smear the name of Rangers or anything they perceive to be Protestant/Unionist/Loyalist. Make no mistake I know of not one person old or young who have sung the song who believed whether in their youth or adulthood that Billy Fullerton was the ''Billy'' in the Billy Boys. In fact a quick glance over the scant information there is on Billy Fullerton's life also reveals that Fullerton named his gang & of course the chant after the memory of his glorious majesty King William the third. But that fact does not fit the narrative or the agenda of a willing political & media world determined to criminalise those who they perceive as Unionist/Protestant.

The offending part of the Billy Boys is of course the mention of the word ''******'' in the song. Now we know the hypocrisy of the media in Scotland & the fact they have no issue with others being up to their knees in blood. It is of course the fact that is ****** blood. Now here again they have anachronistically brought this word into mean someones ethnicity or religion. Despite the fact that the majority of those who are offended at this word or neither Irish or practising catholic.

Now let us make this very clear. ''******'' has never or ever will define or describe a person's ethnicity or religion. From the outset of the establishment of Fenianism the catholic church for example excommunicated these people who had a warped & criminal mind who had an ideology that was very simple in its operation. Murder & mayhem. Throughout the recent troubles in Northern Ireland this same excommunication comes to a clear light when you witnessed the church at war with the inheritors of the warped ****** ideology by refusing to bury these murderers in their paramilitary garb.

So the question is was the catholic church excommunicating this grouping on religious grounds? Was the Irish priest excluding these people on the basis of their ethnicity or religious belief?

Now we hear the old argument that words evolve & can have new meanings. This is what I mean by anachronistically bringing in a word that had another meaning & placing it to mean something else & this has been amplified in the case of ******. Now it has become in the world of the media & politicians in Scotland & of course Northern Ireland to define a person's belief or ethnicity. Neither is correct & neither is accurate.

Today in this present time those who celebrate the murderous campaigns of these sectarian zealots which the fenains began clearly demonstrate themselves what they believe the word to mean & actually have it correct. Today you can merchandise with the words ''unrepentant ****** b____d'' with of course the obligatory armalite accompanying the slogan. Now you do not need to be a genius to work out what it is defining. The ''fenians'' were a grouping'' who did not represent the people of Ireland. They were outside normal Irish society & were not representative of the Irish people. They certainly did not represent the catholic church. 

So as the title goes in this post & the questions asked what has ''******'' got to do with someones ethnicity or religious belief? What has the Billy Boys got to do with Billy Fullerton who many contemporaries believed he took the name of Billy in the song to mean William of Orange?

[barca72 440]

Is there really another chant in the whole of Football that can galvanize a stadium like this one does?

 

 

[colinstein 294]

it was Buffalo Bill

[Bluedell 5,599]

13 minutes ago, barca72 said:

 

Now let us be very clear from the outset of the discussion. Some have attempted to associate this song with a certain Billy Fullerton. This is another anachronistic attempt by those who would do anything to smear the name of Rangers or anything they perceive to be Protestant/Unionist/Loyalist. Make no mistake I know of not one person old or young who have sung the song who believed whether in their youth or adulthood that Billy Fullerton was the ''Billy'' in the Billy Boys. 

Now let us make this very clear. ''******'' has never or ever will define or describe a person's ethnicity or religion. 

.1. I've always thought it related to Billy Fullerton

 

2. If "fen'ian" has never described someone's religion, why has it been used so much to describe RCs who have never publicly expressed Irish republican views? Of course it's used as a derogatory term for RCs. I may not use it as such, you may not as such and it may be incorrect to use it in that way, but it is used to describe RCs. I've even heard Spanish opposition being called "fen'ian" at Ibrox. It's the same argument as those who use the H word to mean Rangers fans. There may be some  who do, but there is a huge chunk of people who use it as a derogatory term for Protestant.

 

Until the use of it to describe RCs is eliminated, the use of the word will continue to be criticised.

[Bearman 9]

Personally speaking, as a young Rangers fan growing up and singing this song every week, I thought I was singing in praise of King Billy and I was one of 'The Billy Boys'.

I'm not sure how long ago it was when I 'learned' it was to do with a guy called Billy Fullerton, but I was much much older. Honest!

 

Btw, The Billy Boys of Fullerton fame never committed one murder, the f****ns murdered many, just saying.

[Bill 13,717]

26 minutes ago, Bluedell said:

.1. I've always thought it related to Billy Fullerton

 

2. If "fen'ian" has never described someone's religion, why has it been used so much to describe RCs who have never publicly expressed Irish republican views? Of course it's used as a derogatory term for RCs. I may not use it as such, you may not as such and it may be incorrect to use it in that way, but it is used to describe RCs. I've even heard Spanish opposition being called "fen'ian" at Ibrox. It's the same argument as those who use the H word to mean Rangers fans. There may be some  who do, but there is a huge chunk of people who use it as a derogatory term for Protestant.

 

Until the use of it to describe RCs is eliminated, the use of the word will continue to be criticised.

I think if the word ****** (I refuse to disguise the spelling, which is ridiculous) has been used in a disparaging sense, it certainly hasn't been against Roman Catholics in general. In fact, I've never felt that Rangers fans were ever particularly anti-Catholic, except in one very narrow corridor or contempt - where Catholic was strictly synonymous with Irish republicanism. I don't think any of us ever regarded Lorenzo Amoruso or Rino Gattuso as "******" or ever criticised them for being Catholics. It may in fact be more accurate to say that "Catholic" became derogatory only as an erroneous substitute for Irish republican (who readily designate themselves as fenians), rather than the other way around.

[MacK1950 2,357]

I'd never heard of Billy Fullarton till I joined this forum,IMHO I too thought the Billy referred to King Billy.

What is totally unacceptable to me is the use of FTP in songs and things like f***k Bobby Sands he's deid and even God Save the Queen in the Blue Blue Sea Of Ibrox.there is no need for it and any such associated insertion of these words in other singing.

[der Berliner 3,716]

In essence, it is all about context.

 

What in the 1970s and 80s might well have been meant in earnest - well, half-earnest -  in these songs with regard to downright hatred of the Irish Republicanism and its links to anti-Protestant Catholicism has essentially been watered down amongst - I would say - large sections of the support in the 1990s and 2000s. I doubt that large sections of our support in the 2000s and not least nowadays deny their Catholic neighbours their birthright or standing in society or whatnot, in fact, I doubt that religion does really matter to large chunks of the Rangers support at all.

In fact, I would go as far as saying that SDM was right when speaking of "90 minute bigots", as most people singing the "traditional", loyalist or other older songs would sure not chase down any Irish Catholic or any Catholic at all outside a football ground.

IMHO, the religion - debate was brought back by the ailing Yahoos from 2007 onwards, as they were having a go at our songs in Europe, as people in Scotland "obviously" had "turned a blind eye" on "our sectarianism" (sic!). And since people couldn't help to belt out FTP in Europe, that Austrian Catholic UEFA chap took offence and made us pay for the last decade or so, as he made sure FTP and TBB were deemed "discriminatory" (sic!). Afterwards, with that UEFA rule in their hands, the witch hunt began in earnest ... and the religious divide became a medial topic again. And the media made sure that we got an utterly new definition of sectarianism in (the West of) Scotland, where it was essentially only referring to anti-Irish and anti-Catholic bigotry ever since. Something you can see to this day when judges and sheriffs clear people using the word "Hun" for us as some sort of "sporting term", whereas "******" suddenly becomes sacro-sanct and indeed is being attributed with something vague like the "Irish race". When a quick look accross the Irish Sea and the guidelines of the Police Force of Northern Ireland would instantly reveal what is rather common knoweldge, i.e. that both terms are clearly derogatory for Protestants and Catholics respectively, with the word "******" also heavily linked with Irish Republicanism and anti-British terrorism. And if you look at the songs and banners of those belting these songs out at the Piggery, you know exactly that they don't refer to anything else but Irish Republicanism and terrorism, glorifying killers in a way that is being outlawed by the Terrorism Act 2000 and 2006 in the UK, of which Scotland seems to be no part of.

 

As for TBB, Bill Murray's books about the Old Firm do give a rather decent review about the - IMHO - darker ages of our support, how these songs came about and what they refer to. The big problem quite a few of "our songs" have - as opposed to theirs - is that they are specifically against something / someone / you name it. It is somewhat beyond me how someone wants to reasonably defend FTP (not least in a football ground), while to "walk into anyone's blood" is sure not helping any song's cause either. They may be great to sing along, make your spine crawl if sung by 50odd thousand people, but that was also the case with "Germany above all" when sung by the Nazis. No comparison or disrespect here, BTW.

 

I said it back then and I say it again now: as long as we are not cleared to sing these songs (well, essentially only TBB) and doing so will hurt the club, it needs to be fought against. And fighting is sure not belting it out in a football ground as a means of freedom of speech, as this won't hurt the singer, but solely the club. The fight needs to be fought elsewhere, not least at the green table. For some reason though, those TBB keyboard warriors quickly vanish into the sunset when they are advised to do so. None of the 50k people around you bravado remaining.

 

As I pointed out above, FTP won't stand a chance here, and TBB will need some Donald Findlay like lawyer to have a remote chance. Someone, who would e.g. use the Marseillaise as a comparison, which is also being aired by the French despite dripping blood et al.

[Gonzo79 15,152]

Fenians want to break up my country.  I couldn't care less what religion they are, they are my enemy.  

 

Rangers fans at away games are great.  Sing it loud and proud.

 

The FTP stuff isn't exactly classy but that religion is repulsive, so I'm not going to take issue with that either.  Tims are desperate for us to become spineless, so let's not do it.

Edited January 28, 2018 by Gonzo79