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It's not rank rotten, but it's not as good as 3 or 4 seasons ago, thats without doubt. Better Rangers sides than this one have been thumped at Parkhead. A star studded Rangers side who beat Celtic 5-1 in season 2000/01 lost 6-2 and 3-0 to them that season as well. I understand supporter's are angry and disappointed after a home defeat where we were second best all over the pitch, but surely some perspective is required? We are a club and a team going through transition. Only two players remain from the Europa League final run, one of them is a back up centre half and the other our much maligned right back and captain. That's huge change in a short time. For comparison the Celtic squad for that season contains 10 players who are still regular starters for them this season. We can pinpoint moments where things might have turned out differently. The huge one is failing to beat Malmo in Champion's League qualifying in 2021. Had we secured that money the squad could have been strengthened further, perhaps Gerrard wouldn't have been tempted away and our ability to match Celtic financially would have given a huge boost. Had we sold Morelos when he was one of the most exciting strikers in Europe, had we sold Kent when he was ripping holes in Bundesliga club defences for fun, had we sold Tav when he was one of the most effective attacking full backs in the Europa League... Decisions were made and we did none of those things. Our recruitment has suffered because of that. We're now a club that looks for potential talent in leagues or clubs a rung below us financially or in the reserves of clubs a rung or two above. We're not able to buy players in their prime now, not really good ones at least. We're a stepping stone for players hoping to make it to England or another league where the pay is much higher. Diomande, Jefte, Bajrami, Igamane and ever Barron will be hoping to develop and move within a couple of seasons. Guys like Cerny, Bajrami, Cortes, Nsiala we're the required 'step back' to move forward again. I'd say Propper is our only summer signing for who signing for a club like us is the final destination rather than than a stop on the way. That's a big change from under Gerrard and even from under Beale, who was indulged to an extent that we signed Danilo (over £5 million), Dessers (over £3 million), Lammers (£3.5 million) and even Cifuentes at £1.2 million. We must all surely realise that kind of spending on that type of player isn't going to happen again? I think it's going to be a rough season. We'll take some beatings at times, maybe even domestically. But I think we'll give some out too. Some of our signings look shrewd. Diomande, Jefte and Bajrami have ben early successes I'd say, Barron has shown enough to suggest he can become an important player and the fleeting glances of Cortes and Kasanwirjo suggest similar. Time is rarely given to Rangers managers and already some feel time is up for Clement. Yet time is what we need to give someone, Clement or whoever. This season still has some twists and turns ahead but if we're to build something we'll need to show patience and support. Again, not something we've always been good at. The only way we can compete financially, even with Celtic far less Lyon, is to develop players and sell them for a profit. That requires buying ones that aren't the finished article and trying to make them better. That's what we're doing this season and I don't see what other choice we have. I don't think it's Clement's fault that our squad isn't as good as it was 25 months ago, he can only play the hand he's been dealt. I've seen enough in some games to feel he does know what he's doing, but that it will take time and luck for that to to be fulfilled.

Cerny Should be sat on the bench

We got beat by Lyon at home under Gerrard too, my argument is fine, I don't think you understand it. We can still make it to the business end of the EL this season. If we beat FCSB, USG and take something from Nice and Olympiacos we will get through. In fact the year we made the final, before we reached the EL we were beaten twice by a Malmo side who I'm not sure are much better than this seasons after making a tough job of some eastern European postmen in Alashkert shirts. When we started the Europa under Gerrard we suffered consecutive defeats by Lyon and Sparta Prague. But took 4 points from Brondby before Gio took over and we beat Prague and drew with Lyon in essentially a dead rubber. Dortmund was an outlier, if we had played them 10 times we would probably have lost 5 times, drawn a couple and won a couple. Leipzig too, I think they were spooked by the occasion that night at Ibrox while our team rose to it, it was a perfect storm. Red Star Belgrade and Braga no. Even Frankfurt were not a big spender in comparison to many German teams at the time. But like I say that team we had that made it to the Europa league was paid more, had been bought for more and had gelled more than what we have now. I think there is some revisionism for many supporters around Gerrard and our run to Seville. The getting a hiding from a very expensively assembled Lyon at Ibrox is just how it is. And everyone needs to pull up the big boy trousers and look forward to Sunday and 3 points, and longer term reinforcements in January's transfer window.

II already said he is managing the (lightweight) squad. It is certainly not a cheap shot. I do not want a change of manager but I just want him to be a bit more flexible.

Park bench, feeding the ducks. Although, he'd probably miss the lake with the bread.

Clement seems to prefer Lawrence at 10 and the Albanian wide. I think a big part of our problems in attack are Lawrence and Dessers. We have a 10 who lacks pace and rarely does anything of note and you all know my thoughts on Dessers. The Albanian is far more creative than Lawrence or Dowell. I'd rather see him or Hagi behind the striker. The formation we play requires better players at 9 and 10.

The manager is making life very difficul for the team and himself. Quite simply, play your best team and play players in their best position.

Id like to see Igamane and Dessers upfront with Bajrami behind them. We simply didnt have enough through the middle against Hibs and its easier for the opposition defenders to pick up just Dessers with Lawrence behind. St Johnstone shouldnt cause problems so its a waste having a back 4 then 2 deep midfielders.

Think my 1st European game was a 2-1 win over Porto 1983/84 season. The next season saw us play Bohemians (lucky to beat them to be honest) then a 3-1 home win against Inter Milan who had Liam Brady and Karl Heinz Rummenigge amongst others. We lost 3-0 in the away leg with Ally McCoist missed an absolute sitter. Jock Wallace played outgoing captain and centre half John McClelland as centre forward.

I agree he is managing the squad. He could put Nana at left back and Jefte left wing, Bajrami number 10, Sterling right back and Mcausland on the wing. That is what I hoped he would do at half time.

Sterling hasn't had the opportunity to play in his preferred position. I think Lawrence has been better but not good enough to say it is his jersey. We are crying out for goals so play Barjami as a 10 and see what he can do. McAusland has been more effective than Cerny but certain players seem to keep playing when they are rotten. I don't think we are using our assets to the best advantage.

Sterling, Bajrami, McAusland

Wolfsburg's or ours?

Dortmund won the European Cup Winners Cup in 65/66 beating West Ham in the semis and Liverpool in the Final. Defending the trophy in the following season, they got a first round bye then Rangers put them out in the second round. Dortmund didn't qualify for European football again until 82/83 season. In the UEFA cup first round, they were once again drawn to play Rangers. Once again, Rangers put them out. Their next season in Europe was 87/88. Another visit to Scotland in the first round. However this time they managed to win the tie, against Celtic.

Dortmund? Who is Dortmund https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/live/c2lnx2dx8ynt

That's what we were told about Beale (brains behind Gerrard).

Liverpool will score three. Arsenal may be restricted to three. Brenttford will beat Wolves 2-0 maybe 3-1. You could be right about Leicester. City will concede at least one against Fulham but it won’t matter because they will score more. Ipswich might just get two against the Hammers so it will be a draw. Everton v Magpies is the most difficult to predict. 1-1? Villa 1-3 United, I’m afraid. Chelsea 4-0 Forest. BHA 2-1 ‘Spurs. EDIT. Half time at Palace 0-1 but I made my prediction before looking. No need to change. Three it will be. EDIT 2. Three it was not. That’s the Scouse for you. Let you down when you trust them.

Aye, but I have seen enough in other games to feel he doesn't have a full grasp on the situation. A case in point being the structure of the team to play against a Lyon side with exceptional wingers. You talk about "time and luck". If he wants more time, at times he needs to be pragmatic and give luck a better chance of playing a part. Watching Clement in press conferences of late is becoming painful. It is curious that some of the above applies to Rodgers intransigence/Celtic CL scudded, again. But he comes at it from a position of strength, although if he repeats the structure and Atlanta thrash them, he'll suddenly become a target. Relative expectation levels. Clement doesn't have the benefit of a firm base and he needs to cut out the self inflicted damage. Depressing, but you start to think that McInnes wouldn't be the worst option at this stage in a rebuilding process. Doubt the board would be brave enough/ support would tolerate it. It is a process that I think will take 3 to 5 years. You don't suddenly happen upon a functioning player trader model and the revenue stream that this can generate.

The club offered to make a fixture switch to Perth for a 3pm K/off but others declined for some bizarre reason - this would easily have been the more sensible option.

Premier League chief claims the outcome of Lassana Diarra's case has 'EVERYBODY worried'.. and admits it could cause 'complete anarchy and chaos' to the transfer market as we know it Alex Conrad West Ham United vice-chairman Karren Brady insists the landmark ruling regarding the Lassana Diarra case 'has got everybody worried'. The European Court of Justice ruled on Friday some of FIFA's rules on player transfers are contrary to European Union legislation relating to competition and freedom of movement. The ruling is seen as crucial because it could make it easier for players to terminate their contracts and join another team. As a result, it could bring an end to big money transfers as players would hold all the cards, allowing them to pick and choose their next move. It has Brady fearing what it could mean for the market moving forward. The European Court of Justice handed down a historic ruling regarding FIFA player transfer rules on Friday The case was brought forward by Diarra over a decade-long dispute with a Russian club West Ham United vice-chairman Karren Brady holds grave fears over what the ruling will mean 'The outcome of the Lassana Diarra case has got everybody worried,' Brady wrote in a column for The Sun. 'But one thing is for certain: if a player has the right to terminate their contracts because they want to go elsewhere, then so would their club. 'And the result of that would be complete chaos and anarchy.' Brady added: 'If players can simply break their contracts and move around the world the entire system will collapse.' The Hammers vice-chairman also protested what the ruling would mean for clubs lower down in the English football pyramid. Several Premier League stars began their careers in the lower reaches of the English Football League (EFL), with some also breaking through at non-league clubs. Those teams often insert sell-on clauses in case the player goes on to even bigger and better after securing a move. Diarra argued he couldn't join a new club after Lokomotiv Moscow terminated his deal in 2014 Brady believes the ruling handed down will cause the entire transfer system to crash The ECJ's ruling is seen as crucial because it could make it easier for players to terminate their contracts Exeter City is one club who has benefitted from sell-on clauses as they were entitled to 15 per cent of Ollie Watkins' £28million move from Brentford to Aston Villa in 2020. The club also received a tidy windfall from Jay Stansfield's record-breaking £10m move from Fulham to Birmingham City in the summer. In her column, Brady used the example of non-league side Maidenhead United receiving £4m as part of West Ham's £40m deal to sign Max Kilman from Wolves. 'That's life-changing money for a non-league club but if there are no fees anymore that won't happen and the impact will be incredible.' Diarra's case was prompted when he signed a four-year contract with Lokomotiv Moscow in 2013 but the deal was terminated a year later after the former French international was unhappy with alleged pay cuts. Brady voiced her concerns for how lower league and non-league clubs would be impacted Ollie Watkins' move from Brentford to Aston Villa generated substantial income for Exeter City West Ham's move for Max Kilman helped non-league Maidenhead United earn £4million Lokomotiv Moscow applied to the FIFA dispute resolution chamber for compensation and the player countered seeking compensation for unpaid wages. The Court of Arbitration for Sport ruled in favor of the Russian club and the player was ordered to pay 10.5 million euros ($11.2 million). Diarra claimed his search for a new club was hampered by FIFA's rules stipulating any new side would be jointly responsible with him for paying Lokomotiv. The former Real Madrid player also argued that a potential deal with Belgian club Charleroi fell through because of the FIFA rules, and sued FIFA and the Belgian federation at a Belgian court for damages and loss of earnings of six million euros ($7 million). With the lawsuit still going through Belgian courts, the case was referred to the ECJ for guidance.

I thought they would be a disaster but fair play to the Coach. Im not convinced they have been fully tested except Man City on the opening day plus they got lucky at Bournemouth.

Im going against the odds and tipping first wins of the season for Leicester and Wolves today. Palace just havent got started this season for some reason and Liverpool are winning ugly and playing well so will still be without a win, as will Southampton after their manager publicly called out the players and said he wont change his style. Ipswich are up against a West Ham side who must win. If Villa dont have a Euro hangover they could tank Man Utd. Crystal Palace 0-2 Liverpool Arsenal 5-0 Southampton Brentford 1-2 Wolves Leicester 1-0 Bournemouth Man City 2-0 Fulham West Ham 2-0 Ipswich Everton 1-2 Newcastle Aston Villa 3-0 Man Utd Chelsea 2-0 Nottingham Forest Brighton 1-1 Tottenham

Was that a 5-5 aggregate? Derek Clarke on the Rangers review posted on twitter he picked up a programme from this game at a sports memorabilia game in Northampton the other day. Edit - actually it was red star Belgrade, but also at Highbury, 4th November 1964.

I'm starting to feel sorry for Diamonde. He's obviously a decent player but is being misused and asked to do too much in this system. Berjami for MOTM. Play him as bloody ten please.

It's not as black and white as that. It is clear that Lyon (who spent over 150 million) are miles ahead of a CL team like Slovan Bratislava for example.

When Lawrence was subbed at halftime, why was Dowell brought on? Thought the obvious move was to put Bajrami in his favoured 10 position and put McCausland out wide. We pad over £4M for a number 10 and he's never played there for us.

Hacked perhaps by a pessimistic poster.

Well, we can do the German mentality thing and blame our players etc. more than we take that step back and look at the opposition. As Idisi said, the second half of the Hibs (!!!) game was really poor, and I didn't look forward to last night, knowing what little change Clement would do - and was able to do. We are where we are and have the players showing this. What Clement has to deliver is a team that grabs the title and with it a chance for the golden automatic CL slot. We'll get slaughtered by the same teams that came and will come to Ibrox this season, but at least we can start building a team. That's the dire reality - and probably the very same which Swedish, Danish and other low-key league teams' face. My main bone of contention remains the lack of change in players and system according to the task at hand. It broke, Warburton, McCoist, Caixinha, SG, Gio, and Beale. Madness really ... if you remember how few managers we had before Sir Walter.

Rangers were very good in the Europa League during the last few years. Sometimes because teams did not know you and the players, sometimes because of luck, sometimes both. Yesterday, you played the same players like in every other game, and very open. It was clear at the Hibernian game which I saw with Der Berliner that this only works if all players are up for it. There was little change for yesterday, and quality like Lyon will punish you like no Edinburgh team will ever do. I would have "plugged their teeth" with more physical players and pressing, and waited for opportunities like in Malmö. It is a bit strange that you constantly play the same system.

Individual errors, missing a bonafide sitter, etc don't help but Lyon were simply a far better team. Their middle to front players made the most of the space we presented them with. That, IMO is down to the manager. How he set up the team and the players he selected. Clement has a very difficult remit. We don't want to hear excuses but it is going to a gunfight with a wooden sword. But, last night he compounded the situation through his own decisions.

Remember too that Lyon spent €150m in the summer

I'd like to see more of Nana. I might be wrong, but was there not a moment when he was moaning at or encouraging his teammates? More of that.

Pretty sure it was a clever joke.

Compo - young supporter?? However I do agree with the rest of your post and for me the solution is to change the formation to a 3-5-2 especially in domestic games. With 3 centre halfs it removes Tavernier's defensive duties slightly and becoming less reliant. Jefte is clearly good enough at both LB and LW so going up and down would be perfect for him. You dont change the midfield combo of Diomande and Barron plus having a creative attacker in front of them. But you put someone else along side Dessers to give him more help and more space for the no.10 - For me the chances should increase and also fall to other players. This was plainly obvious against Hibs and we relied on a Lawrence worldly and a Penalty save to get 3 points.

Obviously a lot of quite young supporters on here, like Compo, who might not realise that this is the third time Lyon have beaten us, fairly easily, at home. For us old timers this is something we've seen before, sometimes a European side turns up at Ibrox and is simply quicker, stronger and more skilful over the 90 minutes. Unless you're about 12 years old then this isn't the worst Rangers team you've seen. Last night, as against Celtic and as against Dynamo Kiev, our biggest problem remains our inability to convert our chances. Our team simply doesn't have enough goals in it. Lawrence is contributing now, Dessers will score some, but the rest of our team simply aren't. The goals have dried up from Tav, our centre halves aren't much of a threat from set pieces and our other midfield and attacking players simply don't score often enough. Lyon had goals right across their forward line. I don't think there is much we can do about that. We have the squad we have until January at least. Unless someone suddenly emerges that's going to be an ongoing problem. I suspect even if Cerny or Tav had scored early on. and they both should have, we might still have lost, but goals change games, they lift the crowd and force the opposition to change how they play. So who knows. This is a Rangers side in transition. Diomande, Bajrami and of course Butland looked decent last night, others found the pace, power and skill of Lyon to much. Anyone who thinks changing manager, again, in the autumn is he answer is very wrong, in my opinion.