craig

Mendes is under-performing, of that there is no doubt. Sadly he one of a number. Is it their fault ? Is it the coaching ? Is it the tactics ? the formation ? I don't know but what I do know is that if we dont sort this out quickly then our season will be in a shambles with NO silverware to show for it.

Cool as I could be in the current circumstance my man. Just wanted to head things off at the pass. I enjoy the heated debate (although I prefer it when we are winning.....) but we should all be respectful.

Disagree. We are rudderless right now and the players are not performing to the best of their capabilities. It is hard to say whether the changing of managers would do us good or bad. The sad thing for me is that I see us losing the league with WS as manager so err on the side of change, and I never thought I would say that at the business end of a season.

That is a fair enough point Cammy - but that is still unacceptable for ANY player plying their trade professionally. This is exactly what I was getting at. WS should have the balls to drop one of them and force them to improve their training and performances to get back in the team. At present both KNOW they will be selected and that breeds laziness. I would like to see us deploy a diamond shape with BF the more defensive and Mendes the more attacking (and that could be inter-changed) but WS wont revert from what he does. I am no Walter Smith hater, but his tactics & formation have been very poor, especially against Celtic. They have been there for the taking and we didnt go for the jugular. More frustrating than that though is that in almost every single game this season we start with a very slow tempo and that allows the opposition to gain in confidence. We should be going out, going for the jugular, forcing teams on the back foot and letting them know that THE RANGERS MEAN BUSINESS. The last time I recall we started with a high termpo was at home to ICT...... no, not the home defeat but the drubbing we gave them !

I dont mind BF berating his team-mates, not one bit. What I DO mind, is when he does it for his own misgivings or misplaced pass.

Thomson is the one player we have badly missed this season. With him in there we win the battles "most" of the time. We have badly missed him and he was really starting to look and play like a class player. IMO, and I have stated this before, our CM's, when all fit, should be Kevin Thomson + AN Other (choose either Fergie, Mendes or Davis) but the one constant should be Kevin Thomson.

I actually think that Mendes was one of our best players until BF came back into the side. He and Thomson really seemed to have a good understanding and we seemed to be doing well in midfield. That is not a criticism of BF but rather an observation of mine - perhaps BF and Mendes are too similar, I dont know. But they are not producing the performances we need to win the title. Neither of them are !

And the exact same argument could be tabled for BF this season Cammy. I disagree, I thought that BF only really looked like "wanting" to win when we got to the 2nd half of ET. That isnt enough for me. As I say, I may be harsh in that assessment - I am no Barry hater but he didnt do a great deal IMO yesterday.

Only the one request guys, lets keep it respectful. That statement is NOT saying that anyone is being disrespectful but I would like to nip it in the bud before it happens.

We have a two horse race because the other teams in the league have even less resources than the OF. Fact. What is the relevance of your statement in the context of me pointing out that both teams are poor ? Are you saying that, merely because they hold the top two positions that they are not ? Surely an intelligent bloke like yourself calscot is not using such a flawed argument in your defence ? The position in the table does not necessarily reflect the quality of the team nor where it should stand in comparison to its previous teams that may have finished lower in the league. In the SPL we have TEN shit teams and we can't finish as the best of a piss-poor bunch. Was the standard higher in 2006 when we finished 3rd ? Quite possibly. Sure it is subjective but how else do we measure ? Because, for sure, using simple facts like "we are 2nd this year but finished 3rd in 2006" is by no means a good example of whether we are better or worse. It is all relative. Interesting..... seeing as your initial post was speaking about CELTIC being there for the taking I would have thought it safe to assume my riposte would be talking about RANGERS "taking them". Maybe I should have been clearer. Sorry but they ARE there for the taking. Just because they are champions and just because they are top of the table doesn't change that. It just means that no-one HAS taken them (whatever it means anyway....). If they are not there for the taking then the rest of the SPL just shouldnt bother trying, right ? Man U and Liverpool may well be shit compared to the Brazilian World Cup team of 1972 but if they are the best teams in the Premiership, what does that matter? Sorry but there is NO oxymoron in there. The two BEST teams can also still be SHIT teams. It really IS that straight forward. It is perhaps meaningless in the context of the SPL title but is certainly no oxymoron. Your statement was whether Celtic were there for the taking. Perhaps you should have been more specific and spelt out that you meant in terms of winning the title. They still are there for the taking, by US. They still are shit. So are we. And sorry, but there was no "comparable" that I gave. I am not trying to compare Man U & Pool to Brazil. Likewise I am not trying to compare Celtic to anyone. They are, simply, a SHIT team. No comparison necessary. Same can be said of us. I was talking in reference to the Celtic games and you really should have understood that as it was part of the same paragraph about Celtic being there for the taking. Taking my statement out of context to defend your own statement is poor. Sure we win a lot of games but against Celtic this season we have, aside from ONE game, tried to "not lose" rather than win. And funnily enough that one game was the one time that we actually beat them. The relevance is straight forward enough, Celtic are there for the taking if you actually TRY to beat them. In the last 2 games we havent tried to beat them (though, admittedly, the game prior to that at Ibrox we were the better of two poor teams - with a 4-4-2 funnily enough.....) Eh ? We should be capable of beating ANY team in Scotland calscot, if St Mirren beat them it should merely be reinforcement of that. How is it schoolboy thinking ? You like to use comparisons and yet when that comparison is made you decide comparables arent worthy ? The sad reality is that we are having to use such poor comparatives because we have little confidence that we can put a team out to beat Celtic whenever we meet. We have to use a "St Mirren beat them so we can too" mentality to provide positive reinforcement - we should NEVER need that against teams in the SPL. The game at Ibrox we were the better team, fair enough. But in the last two games we have been far more concerned with not losing to them rather than putting them to the sword. You know, you could be right and that using the terminology of "we try not to lose to them" is not justified but we certainly are not going out to try and take the game to them. In the last 3 games they have also not played any more negatively than us. In a two horse race the ONLY team that matters is Rangers aside from them. The fact that they have dropped points left, right and centre to poorer teams does not add any positivity to what WE have done this season. We are behind a very poor Celtic team. Sugar coat that any way you want but the simple truth remains that Celtic, this season, are a very poor team and yet they find themselves ahead of us...... tells its own story, especially if you look at the squads - I would suggest that we have a stronger squad than them yet we have a manager who has NO IDEA how to utilise it. Further, he spunked money on strikers in pre-season only to then play one up front..... and has to play about 4 players out of position in every single game. That, for this bear, is SHOCKING mismanagement. At least we agree on something my friend.

I agree Jon, Cammy you and I must have been watching different players in Davis. He, Whittaker and Novo are the ones who I thought were our better players. I am amazed that you felt Ferguson was one of our best players. He did very little for this bear, I thought he was shocking albeit not quite as bad as Mendes. All about opinions I guess.

Whilst I agree completely witht he sentiments I think it would be remiss of us to also thank Whittaker and Davis for their contributions. They looked like they wanted to win the game which was lacking from the vast majority of the rest of the team (Papac would be excepted from my criticism too).

I havent sen many on here saying #1 is the case (other than the recent timposter). Most of us agree that Celtic are not much better than us. Re #2 there is a good enough case that both teams are in the doldrums. Both teams are very, very poor. Poorest ever ? Probably not, but you are looking at over 100 years of history. In recent history both teams are as bad as they have been for probably 20 years. Re #3 - Celtic ARE there for the taking, I defy anyone to deny that. They are shit. However, so are we. But we also play tactics which are meant to "not lose" rather than "to win". It isnt a case of saying "they got beat by St Mirren so they are crap" - it is more a case of saying "they got beat by St Mirren so we should be capabe of defeating them" but our tactics are such that we try not to lose to them rather than beating them. And this season we cant say that the St Mirren defeat they had was an abhorration, they have been awful for most of the season. I am more worried by the distance between the two clubs OFF the field than I am on it.

Absolutely no doubt at all that it would be the biggest issue in the press this morning had we won.

I will say again, I am not a Smith hater - but I am sick to death of the number of times he says "there was not much between the teams". Why am I sick of it ? Because he is actually RIGHT in that there was not much between the teams. But why am I sick of him continually stating that ? Simple, because this is the worst Celtic team in a decade, if not a whole lot longer !! So effectively Walter Smith is saying "they are pish, but so are we". Walter, FFS, can you not realise that what you should be doing is putting this piss-poor Celtic team to the sword and showing them that they are utter, utter pish ? This is the same Celtic team that lost last weekend to St Mirren FFS - and they never looked like even getting close to scoring. Yet here we are, defeated by a team who were "not much better" than us. Smith, Celtic are SHITE and your statements show that you are happy to be "close" to a shite team. Sorry but it most definitely is time for Walter Smith to GO.

True that he inherited a few good players so that should be taken into account, I think it was calscot that mentioned that very fact a couple of weeks ago. However, that group of players were underperforming under Advocaat so Eck should at least get some credit for turning them around. I think Eck was a net income contributor to the club rather than net spender. He did bring some trash to the club but there also was a fair amount of mitigation in that he was being forced to deal in the garbage can of Bosman's, usually in the last couple of days of the window and usually as one of his more important squad members were sold or let go.

McLeish also didnt have the luxury of the spending power Smith has been given.

We are NOT a strong team, how anyone can suggest that having watched us this season is mind-boggling. We are only still in this league because Celtic are as bad as us. This league will be won with a very low points total to prior seasons. Some of that can be attributed to other teams catching up but much of it is to do with the OF being gash. Can we win the league ? Sure, but we need the imposters to actually show some balls and make an effort to win games. We have a team that is constantly looking for someone else to win the game for us. Today the only players who looked like they wanted to win the game were Davis, Whittaker and Novo (and he only came on as sub), the rest wanted someone else to take responsibility.

Interestingly..... if Cardiff win all their games in hand they will go 2nd in the table. This one is going right to the wire.

Actually...... SDM probably couldn't be as far removed from the truth of this if he tried. Those vocally opposed to what is happening at the club are, quite possibly, the fans who are spending more time than others on looking at the club in general (good AND bad) and spending more time worrying about the state of the club. The vocal fans are quite possibly the "true fans" because of their vocality rather than being "false fans" because of it. That is not to say that quieter fans are not true supporters but, usually, in times of unrest, the more vocal are those more passionate.

Quite possibly, sadly

But the championship is not lost. I know we are ALL pissed off but to write the championship off when there are only 3 points in it is premature. There is NO WAY the championship is lost. Sure, Celtic now have the advantage but that is not to say that they wont drop points along the way too. There is still so little in it that to suggest that this results guarantees we dont win the league is foolish IMO. I know where you are coming from though because there is not one single game where we EXPECT a win, let alone a resounding one. Celtic on the other hand always expect to win, and that could be the difference between the two teams come the end of the season, sadly. Classic Walter Smith. Why not come out and say "the team were simply not good enough to beat a determined team that we knew would defend doggedly. If this team wants to win and achieve things then they need to start showing character, grit, determination in doing so". He almost defends his players to a point where they probably dont have to give a shit about results !

But WS should have known that those would be ICT's tactics. What formation did ICT ave out BD ? 4-5-1 ? If they played with one up top then WS should have considered sacrificing someone at the back and went 3-4-3 - that wouldnt happen with WS though - it is either 4-4-2 or 4-5-2 (when fearful of the other team......).

That is a weird defence Shroomz. Regardless of whether they could have gotten worse they also could have just simply stayed shite. They have now taken 4 points from the OF since he came in. He is dragging those players up by the bootlaces up there, something Eck seemed to do in his first season in charge too.

No, what is outrageous is that these players get paid a ton of money and yet you think that they should need to feel loved to perform. You say that they wont be motivated to perform if they get booed..... yet there is equally as much chance that by not nooing that they will become apathetic to the cause !! The reality should be that they should have a desire to win the league regardless of the actions of the fans. So if they cant handle booing fans when things dont go their way then they shouldnt be playing the game for the thousands of pounds they get each week.