maineflyer

Perhaps the most telling reason is .... why not? Everything to gain and nothing to lose.

It's not all bad news for Rangers then.

Or.... to continue the theme..... Why don't we know which consortium/prospective buyer the fan groups are in dialogue with? ... and ... What are their plans for the club that we should know about? Or are we still in the believe that our representatives know what is good for us?

You know, I've almost never started a topic about the RST. I only usually respond to their various announcements, so any idea that I go around hounding them is nonsense. If they ever actually changed anything for the better, I wouldn't be slow to congratulate them. However, neither am I inclined to hold back criticism when the same old self-promotion-based-on fukk-all is trotted out by people who are happy to accept the recognition afforded by the media but unprepared to addrss the root causes of many of our ills. I still have correspondence somewhere from the RST asking that we stop any overt criticism of Murray or club management because this would "Jeopardise the relationship between the Trust and the chairman of Rangers". Then I received a letter from the current chairman of the RST stating that the Trust would be adopting a much more "militant" approach to the Rangers board - "watch this space" he told me - and two years later I'm still waiting. I have many examples of where the Trust has let themselves and the support down badly. Remember, I joined he RST as a member, then forked out 100 notes for a life membership, because I really believed this was the way to influence the decisions of the Rangers board. If I now appear to be frustrated with the RST then that's because I am. Grossly frustrated at the wasted opportunity. All you ever seem to get from the Trust are empty words, usually about the Trust itself. So when people come on fans forums with the express purpose of saying they are to become members of the RST board, I think it's fair game to comment on it. I think it's fair to ask why they are joining and what aims and objectives they take with them. When they respond that they will need to wait and see what the existing bunch of failures want them to do, I already know it's a pointless exercise and I've little hesitation in saying so. Similarly, when I hear the RST spokesman lying to a direct question from a radio interviewer about membership numbers, I get even more disappointed at the way the Trust has been hijacked and misdirected. Everyone knows the membership numbers are pathetic and we all know why this is the case, but the Trust just keeps on lying and deflecting the truth. I don't give a monkeys what the actual membership numbers are but I do care that the Trust cannot be openly honest about it and, even more importantly, cannot operate in such a way that attracts new members rather than driving away existing ones. What is the point of continuing to support the RST board after years of failure, just because they're a bunch of "volunters" who "want a better Rangers". I'm sure they all want a better Rangers but if they're not the people who can deliver anything in that direction then they need to stop pretending they are. In my world, results are what count, not empty words. I'm made it plain I'm a big believer in a Rangers Supporters Trust - but only one that actually works. That comes down to the people running it and we currently do not have the right people. That much is self-evident, not because I say so but because of what we can all see. The only viable answer to supporter representation is to have a single elected body and the Supporters Trust is the ideal vehicle. But it need to be democratic in more than just intent. How many of the current board have been co-opted rather than elected? Too many. How many of the current board have been elected by more than a handful of votes? Too few. That's why a healthy membership is absolutely vital in ensuring the RST does not become a comfort club for an elite and self-sustaining few. The wasted opportunity here is collossal and it's all because two or three individuals have decided they will run the Trust and they will not be accountable. Why are objectives not published, reported against and used as benchmarks to judge effectiveness - like any other business. Why not - you know the answer. Why has the relationship between senior Trust board members and David Murray been allowed to dictate Trust activity (I nearly said Trust policy but that would have been insincere, we don'y have one)? It's not the ordinary fans who are most culpable when it comes to swalling the shit dished up by Murray - there are others who have acted in a far more "pathetic" manner. It took fans, including many of the regular posters on Gersnet, a long time to accept that Murray wasn't some kind of benign God. It seems to be taking the same people even longer to acknowledge that some of our "representatives" have been either complicit or compliant in the mismanagement of Rangers. Eventually we'll all get there, some just taking longer than others.

Thanks Craig, it has always worried me where that liability lay.

I don't believe any of it is drivel but no one forces you either to read these posts or to reply to them, so please don't think you have to be bore by them. However, if you want to take part, how about you tell me where I'm going wrong. Tell me what the RST has actually achieved these last couple of years, make a list. Achieved mind you, not just the usual claimed or talked about. While you're at it, explain to me why the RST is only now urging banks to be petitioned and fans to unite. Where has this zeal been since they declared two years ago their determination to be more "militant"? Convince me with evidence that the RST isn't just a pointless, toothless talking shop, where posturing takes the place of achievement. While we're on the subject of drivel, one of the posters on this thread has made it his business to post what amounts to little more than RST propaganda on this and other sites, all on the back of his recent unelected elevation to the sacred Trust. We've been assailed with diatribe about collective decision making and received lessons on the sematic difference between aims and objectives but so far neither one nor the other has actually emerged so that we might judge whether these are actually achieved. That's drivel but you must have missed it.

Just what exactly is the debt at Rangers? Is it the �£30m everyone keeps talking about or should we add to that the �£50m from MIH to underwrite the last share issue? If MIH went to the wall, would the bank be looking for that �£50m to be repaid as well?

There's no doubt in my mind that the RST has struggled to achieve anything these last couple of years - anything. It has openly lied to promote its own importance and it has shown little appetite for representing anyone, continuing as it does to avoid relevant questions. No we have a club in the crisis that was predicted as early as the late 1990's by several people who are now being criticised for being anti-RST...... and what has the RST been doing all these years to confront the causes of our decline into farce ....... squat. While they should have adopted an assertive policy of confrontation, they instead courted a chairman who played them like a fiddle, hoping that ingratiating themselves would somehow represent the interest of fans who genuinely feared their club was heading for the rocks. Now, at the latest crisis, here we have the RST posturing in yet another act of self-promotion, not only re-hashing old news but now apparently claiming virtue in raking over other people's words. Here's some worthwhile advice. If the RST wants to recover any credibility at all, it should only speak when it actually has something of its own to say. The RST has more than earned the criticism it gets. When it changes the way it acts and stops courting cheap praise then it will get a different reception. It's always the same with the RST, empty words and eff all action.

The surprise isn't that it's true - but that the RST should think it's news.

Two comments on the OP. All of you know I wouldn't post this unless I knew it to be true. 1. All of this was known before any petitions appeared or threats were made to close accounts. The bank wants its �£30m and will either get it by selling the club or by selling players and then the club. 2. Why is this great announcement reserved only for members of FF? Does the RST have a special relationship with that website?:rolleyes:

I'm afraid the new owner will follow the Murray model of the personality cult. I'm not for a single majoity shareholder.

As you say, "oh the irony". I labelled the RST as silly because it seems entirely appropriate. It is silly. But if you doubt it then how about sharing all this "change" you think the RST has driven. I'd love to hear about it. Are you meaning the regular change of board members and the drift towards ever-greater unpopularity and lower membership. Some achievement. So many Rangers fans have spent so many years backing failure in the shape of David Murray. But we've also backed failure in the shape of our supporters organisations - not one of them has actually achieved anything worth the mention. Why is it so many among us are uncomfortable with criticism of these groups? Why are3 we prepared to lower our ambitions and settle for so little? As I said in the OP, we need to change this outlook every bit as much as we expect change in the boardroom.

It's amazing really. Years of subservience and silence while we're being mismanaged. Now, five minutes after Murray leaves the scene, these heroes find their voice and it's all petitions and statements. As the saying goes, you really couldn't make it up. Where were these people when Murray was running the club into the ground and lying through his teeth to every supporter? Where were they?

Yer a bad bad man.

It's a hell of a lot of money to spend only to let someone else decide what to do with it.

.........and has studiously kept everyone at bay who ever expressed an interest in buying the club. I don't have the words to express how angry I feel every time I think of the colossal deceit of Murray. How did we ever allow him to do this to Rangers. We also come out of this mess with little to be proud of, having closed our eyes to so much for so long.

I think the only way forward is for everything and everyone to be swept aside and a totally fresh start made. There is a difficult enough job to be done without pulling baggage behind us. By all means express gratitude if that's what you feel but it really is time to move on............. completely.

I see nothing in the statement to get excited about. Sceptical to the end.

When this mess is cleared away and new owners take their seat round the boardroom table, I sincerely hope the support will follow suit and dismantle the archaic structures we have today. We urgently need to voluntarily sweep away the RSA, the silly RST and all the other acronyms who claim to represent but actually contribute rather little and certainly far less than any of them would claim. If we are prepared to criticise and offer advice to shareholders, directors and investors then I'd like to think we could also take a look at ourselves and create a single point of focus for all Rangers supporters, one that is both democratic and dynamic, something we've seen precious little of to date. Are we honest enough and ambitious enough to do that? Or will we just keep squabbling and achieving so very little.

Somehow, I doubt if that meeting will actually take place. I hope it won't, at least not with that particular chairman. If you see what I mean.

Now Now sir , that's a wee bit of a cheap shot dont you think No, I think it's been exactly the situation for many years. Murray always preferred people who needed to be told what line to take. Every independent view was systematically expunged from Ibrox until no one was questioning anything. It's a bit too optimistic for me to believe Walter Smith is anything but Murray's man.

But if Walter was chairman, who would tell him what to think?

Well done and thanks. You guys who make these facilities available do a hell of a job and it needs to be recognised. Especially since you choose to put up with eejits like me.:devil:

Same here, what's going on?

I think you make really good points rbr, the main one being that everyone is dancing round everyone else right now and no one is showing their cards. However, the bank want a deal to be done, the prospective buyers want a deal to be done, and Murray wants to sell. Only the numbers have to be agreed and it's only to be expected that everyone will be blowing smoke up everyone else's arse until it becomes plain who needs what more than everyone else. It will resolve itself but time is also part of the equation and one that sometimes cannot easily be discarded. As for Walter and his statements, don't you think there is just a slim chance that he's still saying exactly what Murray is asking him to say?